068. - Alicia Kennedy

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Want to make a podcast? Spotify's got a platform that lets you make one super easily, then distribute it everywhere, and even earn money. We like that. All in one place for totally free. It's called Spotify for Podcasters. And here's how it works. Spotify for podcasters lets you record and edit podcasts right from your cellular telephone or your computer. So no matter what your setup is like, you can start creating today. Then you can distribute your podcast to Spotify and everywhere else, those other places that podcasts are heard. Video podcasts are also available on Spotify. And when you want to take conversations with your fans to the next level, Q&As and polls are the best way to get them talking. With Spotify for podcasters, you can earn money in a variety of ways, including ads and... and podcast subscriptions. And best of all, it's totally free. Zero catch. We've been using it ever since we started How Long Gone. And ever since I discovered Spotify for Podcasters, I feel like having the option of turning off the Q&As and the polls on the user dashboard has really helped boost my creativity and take it to another level. I highly recommend giving it a try. Download the Spotify for Podcasters app or go to www.spotify.com slash podcasters to get started.

Hello, Chris. Jason is here. What's up, baby? What's up, loser? We're just talking about how your voice sounds and your voice is so loud and you were saying that it's just that good and that powerful. And I think it might be too much kind of like when you see somebody who has 50 to 100 orgasms a day. That's the type of scenario where it seems like a good thing. but it is actually quite troubling. It might be too much. It might be too much. Look, that's a very weird comparison to make, but I get what you're saying. And unfortunately, if God has blessed me with these booming pipes and I'm not able to sing for a living, then I guess podcasting is a consolation prize I'm willing to accept. Booming pipes. Yeah, you do have booming ass pipes. Okay, so... Really psyched to see that Trump has pardoned somebody that died over 100 years ago. Look, Matt. He really thought he was going to do some shit when he did that probably, right? I would guess so, yes. I mean, I don't know. It's an interesting response to the DNC thing last night, which I, of course, didn't watch because it's boring. But I did see some recaps today of people, of course, talking about Michelle Obama's necklace that said vote and her speech as well. She got that shit on Etsy, you know what I'm saying? It was $315. A friend, Lane, who writes for Wall Street Journal, posted the PR email she got after the speech aired. Customizable, though. Customizable. You could say Chris. You could say Jason. You could say how long gone. I'm sure it goes up as the letters go up. So it's 315. We can get the gone necklace. Not bad. Not bad. I mean, what would you rather have, Jason? A gone necklace or a sporty and rich anklet? I mean, I'm going to have to side with my own brand, I think. Yeah. But the anklet is probably worth a lot more.

I don't know what kind of gold she's using. I also don't know what kind of gold Michelle Obama's jeweler is using. She's using blood diamonds, though, for sure. I love blood diamonds. My teeth are all blood diamonds. All of her diamonds are savage. Speaking of the Obamas, we were really excited. Barack Obama released his 2020 summer playlist. You simps getting so excited about this is the corniest shit I've ever seen. Why do we want politicians to be cool? I want them to do their job. I don't want Barack Obama to have great taste in music. That's not what I'm looking for in a president. And he proved that by posting his playlist because it's not great. What is the percentage of work that he does on this versus somebody doing it for him? I actually think it's a combination of him, an assistant, and a daughter. one of his daughters. Okay. I mean, this feel, yeah, you can kind of tell which ones are which, but it also feels like it was just created by like an AI algorithm. That's like, what would Obama listen to? And this is just dead ass it, which, which I guess is, you know, good. So we got, um, we got, we got Leon Bridges and, and Kruger bin. Leon Bridges, I'm a fan of, and that's a shooter. I accept him. Common has been washed for 20 years. No, I did not say Common. He's next. I'm talking about Krug. What do you think about Krug and Ben? I don't know who Krug and Ben is. I think we should move through this quickly. You know what I mean? Common is trash. He's been washed for 20 years. You should listen to Krug and Ben. I want to hear your thoughts on them. They're pretty popular. Is it? Yeah. Yeah, they're kind of like a more instrumental, druggy, tame Impala, but same level of coolness. Where are they from? I think they're from Texas, maybe. Yeah, well, Leon is too, but why would you name your band something that's unpronounceable? You know, this is, I mean, I don't know how to pronounce Billie Eilish, but she's doing pretty good. I know.

The only song I can really get behind is Gaslighter by The Chick, Song of the Year. God damn it. We got Common, Forever Begins, Trash-ass Common, Trash-ass Song. Common's been washed for literally 30 years. He has one album that people like, and I don't even like that one. That was in 1993 or some shit. John Legend featuring Coffee. Coffee's cool. Coffee's very cool. Not so cool. John Legend's the worst. He's married to Chrissy Teigen. Billie Eilish. Chris Teigen's very cool, though. The Chicks, Gaslighter, that's a black pick. Jason, I saw you bobbing your head listening to that song and admitting it absolutely fucking slapped. Don't drag me down. Don't drag me down into your Dixieland. I'm actually bringing you up because your taste is so poor. Yeah, bringing me up to the Dixie Chicks level. Next up, we have Billie Eilish. I don't know. I'm sure it's a great song. I don't know that song. That's for young people. Maggie Rogers, also a friend. I love her record. She's a good friend of yours. She was also performing at the Democratic National Convention, so they had to include her as my guest. Billie Porter, Tom Brown affiliate, also performing at the Democratic National Convention. Jennifer Hudson. Jennifer Hudson, actress and former reality show winner, also performing the 2020 Democratic National Convention. Savage Remix. Her song is called Feeling Good, and that's going to be a great song by Jennifer Hudson. How could you not like that? Savage Remix, Megan Thee Stallion featuring Beyonce. Of course that's on here. That's a classic. He's a savage guy. Tiana Taylor. No one's ever listened to Tiana Taylor. Let's keep it real. Hell no. Work, obviously, that's a classic. Yeah, this is not 2020 summer playlist, guys. That song is like four years old now. So you're telling me that Barack and Michelle are in the crib banging Heady One, grime rapper from the UK, Young T, Bugsy featuring Heady One. Absolutely not. I mean, unless he's still smoking that. I think Obama might be gone off that fucking Chrome Hearts runts, bro. He's got a bag of Chromie in his pocket like Steve Harvey.

because bro i mean khalid disclosure that's a jason song um fuck no i don't i do not listen to khalid twist and turn popcorn featuring drake and pnd that you have to be on drugs to listen to that like you have to be gone off the fucking amiri kush bro it's summer it's a summer playlist he is thank you i know what fucking season it is um uh Whiz Kid featuring her, H-E-R. H-E-R is an industry plant no one's ever listened to. Whiz Kid is very cool. Keep it moving. Bob Marley and the Whalers, okay. Georgia Smith featuring Burner Boy, very cool and of the moment. Princess Nokia, no one's ever listened to her before. J. Cole, absolutely embarrassing. Nas, you know how I feel about Nas. Mac Miller is – I've never seen revisionist history like this of someone being a legend after they have passed. Not for me. I don't really understand what people like about him, but he's very popular with, like, cool white guys. I don't know who Andrea Valli is. Same. Valli. Mai. May. Tu. Mai. I don't know. 1238, Challenger Scambino featured 21 Savage, Inc. and – Kaja Bonet. I know you're a big Gambino fan, so what do you know about that one? The 21 Savage is the only cool person on this whole playlist so far. Otis Redding is pretty cool, bro. The only cool person that's alive. No, no, no, that's not true. But I am happy to see 21 appear on Barack. What do you do when you're 21 Savage and you're like, I write songs about killing people and that's about it. And then the literal president of the universe. the most beloved president of our entire lifetime, writes your name on an official document saying, I listen to this person's music. That's pretty cool. I mean, look, the second page gets a little better. I don't think we need to run through all of it, but it's got Outkast, Friend of the Show, Moses Sumney, Stevie Wonder, Haim, The Steps, which is also my favorite song from the new album, Sheryl Crow, Certified Legend, Jason Isbell.

Jason Isbell in the 400 unit, which is really interesting because I feel like that's something I should really, really like, and I've never been able to get into it. Nothing interesting about that. But I like him as a concept. Frank Ocean, I don't like him as a concept. Summer Walker featuring Party Next Door, that probably slaps. That's some thought music. There's three different Party Next Door songs on this soundtrack. That means Obama fucking. Way more. Obama has listed more Party Next Door songs on this playlist than I've ever listened to or heard of in my entire life. Same. That means Michelle getting piped down to P&D. We love to see it. We do, honestly. D'Angelo, classic. Chet Baker, the God. Nina Simone, John Coltrane. Also, more Little Sims on there, too. I mean, the fact that Nina Simone and John Coltrane are followed by Anderson .Paak. and Lil Mosey really showed the range of the Obama's sonos. I mean, Obama is the Anderson .Paak of presidents, and I use that pejoratively. I'm glad he did something for the Latinx community with J Balvin featured Dua Lipa, Bad Bunny, and Taney. That song slaps. But overall, this feels fake. Right? Well, he's done this every single year. I know. The first time it came out, it was like groundbreaking, earth shattering. And it seems like he has the same vibe, but he is really taking a lot more of a Latin feel. He's entering into more of the world music. Yes. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I think, look, I get it. Actually, it's not even about it. uh barack and his assistant and his daughter's taste that's not even really the point the point is how excited people get about this thinking this means something the i mean the only thing it really means is if you're somebody on here that is not famous yeah and you know if you're tank and the bangas then you're gonna be like oh sick this person you know if you're andy shalf well hey we don't know you're saying this

But he's also got body rate legend. I'm saying if you're a smaller artist, then this could get you some bucks in your pocket. You're going to get a lot of streams. This is the new iPhone commercial. It is the new iPhone commercial. It's getting Barack's cosign on your shit. The sales are going to go up at least a little bit. Are you saying that Barack Obama is the new Shig Knight? Yeah. Come to death row. I'm saying that Barack is the new Coachella lineup announcement. All those other senators dancing in the videos. If you're sick and tired of all these other former heads of state all in the videos. I just think it's just – it's so insane how excited people were and like heart-eye emojis. It's just like he wears – actually though, somebody said this on Twitter and it's true. This playlist matches the fact that he wears rag and bone and Stan Smith's. So it kind of – at least there is a through line and an authenticity with the cornyness. But again, politicians don't need to be cool. They need to be smart and good at their jobs. I don't need them to be relatable to me. True, but – There needs to be, I guess, a little bit of relatability, just a little bit, but just to let you know that you're not some type of human monster because you look at Trump and you imagine him not even enjoying or knowing music at all. He definitely is not listening to music. If you're a liberal Democrat, that's a big turnoff. That's true. Except when he listens to Kid Rock, which I... It's a blind spot for me. Kid's got some hits, don't worry. Apple announced that Beats 1 Radio is now Apple Music Radio and they have a country music station now because that's the only music that...

Whites to listen to. Makes money. Well, I mean, the fact that they had a different name for it from the beginning was kind of silly anyway. I don't see why you want to splinter a brand of that size. You know what I mean? Because they owned Beats by Dre. They bought Beats by Dre and they wanted to make that brand and the name and the IP go up. And then it just didn't work. I don't think it needed. I don't think Beats headphones needed the IP to go up. Well, I mean. Everyone needs their IP to go up. Sure, but I mean, Beats headphones were fucking gangbusters sales-wise before Apple bought them. That's why Apple bought them. And, you know, that used to be good enough. You'd be like, yeah, we got bought for $3 billion. And they're like, damn, bro, cash out. And then now they're like, okay, that's cool. What's next? Should we talk about when you were on Apple Beats 1 Radio with Fat Jew? Beats 1 Radio. Yeah, we could talk about that. I mean, we don't have much time now, but, I mean, didn't Justin Bieber come on? Yeah, there was literally one episode. It was a weekly show that I co-hosted with the Fat Jew. Shout-outs to the Fat Jew. You guys probably aren't old enough to remember the Fat Jew, but. He owns Babe Winery, the Babe Winery. I did every single episode except the one week I was out of town on location doing a DJ set for the Where Are Your Friends press tour was the Justin Bieber week. And I was really bummed. So you were busy mobbing out with Efron and you missed hanging out with Bieber? That is really, you peaked, sir. That is the coolest thing you've ever said. Yeah, I saw Bieber on the call sheet and said, I'm good. I'm good. Zach needs me. I have a show at Marquee that night. Sorry. Oh, God. Jesus Christ. But, I mean, I don't really care about Justin Bieber. I don't think I'm going to, like, have a conversation with him that is interesting at all. I was more into, like, we had Nelly on, and I asked him if he's still, if he's mad that he doesn't, or something about apple bottom jeans.

And he like almost took his headphones off and walked out. He didn't like the TJ line of questioning? Well, like he was there probably to like promote something going on. Definitely. And then like my dumb ass is like, what up with those apple bottom jeans though, bro? And he was not into it. Yo, so like I call myself them jeans. You know what I'm saying? So like apple bottom. There's a relation here. I got to hang out with T-Pain and talk to him about like metalcore emo music. He was talking about the red jumpsuit apparatus and shit. Oh, my God. That's dark. Which is dark. But my favorite may be Jermaine Dupri. Well, you already know. The flavor is different. So, so deaf, baby. Jermaine Dupri, he didn't say anything. But every time we would make a joke, he'd be like, you guys crazy. That's perfect. That's what I'm going to start doing on this podcast. That's crazy. All right, so after we've slandered the former president's musical taste and big up Jermaine Dupri, I guess we should welcome our guest today. Yes, let us. Our guest today is... Alicia Kennedy. Yes. She is a food writer. And she focuses on vegan topics, which I'm very interested to unpack as a former early days vegan, which I'm sure I share that with her. You're still a practicing member of Vegan Hive, though. Not really. I eat cheese when I need to. But Alicia has a great newsletter. Actually, I see it getting passed around a lot. I see it getting passed around a lot. I do, though. It's very popular. But another thing about her is that she's currently living by choice in San Juan, Puerto Rico. So I can't wait to hear about quarantining in San Juan, what the vibe is and why you would go there at all, really. What'd it do with the Puerto Rican quarantine? What'd it do, baby? All right, let's give her a call.

This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian, Stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world... writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept quote unquote donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money.

Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early, and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. Head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. oh this is huge for me personally this episode of how i'm gone is brought to you by task rabbit oh baby let me tell you something this is this is not a joke i use task rabbit a lot because i can't do anything you need you need some art hang hung task rabbit you need you need a you need a fucking something put together a cabinet gotta reach reach that cheese grater on the top shelf task rabbit anything anything you need task rabbit can take care of it for you and i mean it How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive. And that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code how long with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. Hell yeah, let's go. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. How are you feeling? I'm all right. How are you guys? We're great.

I did a really hard legree workout this morning. Are you familiar with that? I have no idea what that is. Legree? Yeah, it's like a reformer situation. It's just very hard when you're not as flexible as you should be. Like Pilates? Yeah, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Chris, can you just say it's a reformer situation and expect everyone to know what you're talking about? Wow, sorry. I thought I was talking to an enlightened group. I apologize. So you're living in San Juan? Yes, that's where I live. We don't really have like boutique workouts here. I'm actually shocked by that. I assumed that they had taken over everywhere, but I'm glad to know that there's still a refuge for people who don't care. So San Juan is the capital city of Puerto Rico, correct? Yes. Is this true or false? Okay. But what is the workout vibe going on there? No Barry's Boot Camp yet. Well, people do boot camps in the park. People run. People bike. There's lots of yoga, but there's no bar workouts or spin studios or that sort of thing. It's only a matter of time. That virus is spreading everywhere too. What about Trader Joe's or Whole Foods style markets? We don't have a Trader Joe's. We have a local Whole Foods type grocer called Fresh Mart. None of the big chains in terms of groceries here. Do you think it's a logistical supply chain issue or do you think there's just not enough business? We're just racist. There is a supply chain issue and there is a, you know, 50% of the island lives below the poverty line. So that's the issue, I think, with bringing those kinds of things here. Why did you move there? I like it here a lot. And my boyfriend is from here and lives here and works here. And I can live anywhere. So I live here now. Damn.

Yeah, that seems like a big move, but I guess I imagine you'd spent a lot of time there before. Yeah, I've been reporting on the island since 2015, and I moved here last July. So what is the, like, what are you covering? Like, what is the main thing that you want to talk about about Puerto Rico if you were to talk to, like, a novice? Like, what are the inner workings of what's going on there? In terms of pandemic or in terms of food? I would say a little bit of everything. I would like pandemic with a side of food, please. Yeah, exactly. Well, the island has been a colony of the United States since 1898. Since the Jones Act was put into effect in 1920, everything imported in or exported out of the island has to be on U.S. owned and staffed and run ships. And so that makes everything a lot more expensive here than it might be on other Caribbean islands. And that also kind of governs the way that agriculture works here. So about 90% of the food that is consumed on the island is imported from the United States and other places. That seems very high. It's extremely high. Yeah. And so there is a local agriculture. agricultural movement, but it is very not supported by local or federal government. In the same way that in the United States, there is an industrial agriculture range. So yeah, it's an interesting situation. And pandemic-wise, how have they handled it? Terribly, along with the United States, similarly. But we've had a curfew in effect since March 15th. So before a few weeks ago, it was 7 p.m. We all had to be inside by. Now it's 10 p.m. 7 p.m.? Yeah, now it's 10 p.m., but no alcohol is sold after 7 p.m. Wow, 7 p.m. seems really extreme. Yeah, it is super extreme. We're also experiencing a huge spike in coronavirus cases because...

The local tourism company, Discover Puerto Rico, really pushed travel to the island starting in July. And so that's been... That ended up being bad. Yeah, yeah. Extremely, extremely bad. And so, yeah, we might, like, shut down completely at the end of the week, it seems. Oh, so it's that bad, man. It's that bad. I think 27,000 cases right now. On an island of 3 million people. So it's huge. And it's because of the tourism. I mean, they've been coming not wearing masks and that sort of thing. Mostly from high hit places like Florida and like, you know. I was going to ask if it was American or international, but they didn't close. I mean, I guess it's the same rules as America. Yeah, we can't close the airport here. without the faa so if i wanted to go to puerto rico right now it would not be really hard too hard to get in no it wouldn't be hard at all i am looking for some vacation destinations just curious you really sold us on a little get a weekend getaway and the natural one there is good okay that's like i didn't know i didn't know it was that extreme that seems and our people are locals listening to the are they are they trying to do the right thing or is it kind of like fuck these guys Locals are listening to some extent. There's a little speakeasy action, I think, but nothing too extreme. I don't think I would attend, but the fact that I haven't been invited to one underground rave is really bothering me still. I can invite you if you'd like, Chris. I don't think you're going to like what you see. The fact that I haven't been invited to one underground rave is really killing my ego. They're definitely happening. How long did you grow up in New York? Yeah, I grew up on Long Island. And did you live in the city for a long time after that? Yeah, I went to college at Fordham, lived in Brooklyn. Usual thing. You did the whole thing. So you're okay. We can breeze past this. Everybody knows this. We've heard this before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just think that the, do you find, do you find working in Puerto Rico? Is it easier? Is the pace nicer for you?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I, I, I, you know, not, no one is distracting me as much as being in New York, especially cause I grew up in New York. So it's like, I have my family, I have all of the friends I grew up with. I have all the new friends. And like then on top of that, all like the shit you have to go to, um, to like work in media or whatever. And so, yeah, I'm, I'm a hundred percent more productive here. And you, so you've shifted. Your role in the media world to kind of independent where you have your own subscription newsletter, sub stack, audio elements, all that stuff going on. How long have you been doing that for? Or how long have you kind of like gone independent and been subscription model based? Well, really only since March. I had to anchor. gigs as which is like freelance parlance for like regular we love anchor hey yeah and so um yeah i uh since that income dropped off i was like i guess it's time to try out a newsletter and then it just kind of um took off from there i feel like you're i say this in the intro but i feel like your newsletter is really popping i hope so um i don't know It's, it's, it's weird because, you know, it's, I don't know what the, what the level of attention, you know, I have all the numbers in the backend, you know, so I don't know what that necessarily means. Like my newsletter yesterday got over 10,000 views on, in one day. So that's good. Right. Like that's a big boy. We call that a big boy open rate on this. That was your story on luxury and as it pertains to the culinary world. Right, yes. It was about how the culinary world values various ingredients. Which is something I would definitely like to get into. I'm a big food lover myself and I've always loved that part about food where you can experience maybe the greatest version of something for not a lot of money.

And some of those things being things you listed like chocolate and coffee and sugar and things like that. Yeah, it's all relative. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I would rather have that than a truffle. Right. Are truffles actually good or are they just expensive? I don't know. I don't know if I like them that much in general. I love them, actually. It's an acquired taste. Do you love the good shit shaved over pasta, or you're down for like a truffle-flavored potato chip? Honestly, both. I love a truffle shaved over my pasta. I'll take that any day. But also, there are these Spanish potato chips called Torres, I think. Yes, that's what I was talking about. They're good. Yeah, I fucking love them. For me, I don't really care. And actually, that's how this newsletter started. I was like, remember when everyone... was angry about fake truffle flavor. Like what was up with that? And so I went digging into that and then I saw, that's when I read like Kenji at serious eats in like 2011 being like the attempted democratization of the truffle is like one of the greatest culinary crimes ever committed. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like people making truffle oil and like putting it on French fries and potatoes, like that's one of the great, like, do you know that? that entire continents were colonized for resources? That there's child slave labor? I think there's a difference between culinary crimes and crimes involving slavery. I guess a culinary crime stops... Culinary crime doesn't leave the kitchen. Right, but I think that there's lines there in terms of... the extraction of sugar from sugar producing nations and the effects that those have had ecologically, economically, um, you know, and then you continue to just use like white domino sugar and don't know where it came from. Like, I think that's, that's, you know, that is a terrible crime, but I would, I wouldn't call that a culinary crime. I would just call that, but I think it works on both levels. It's a, it's a crime, but it, you know, I don't know. Anyway.

It doesn't matter. This is why we podcast. I mean, an example of a culinary, a culinary crime could be putting pineapple on pizza or something like that, or, or dipping your crust into ranch. Right. But I think that those things still don't have, I think the truffle thing also takes on an ecological dimension and a socioeconomic dimension in the same way that these other things do. because of values and means of production and that sort of thing. Sure. Just like the twisted ramp. The troubled ramp. Troubled ramp. The troubled ramp. I'm jealous I don't have any ramps here in California. That's why I'm lashing out to you, and I do apologize. Oh, that's fine. That chip brand also, they make other wild flavors, though, don't they? I've only seen, I think, the jamón Iberico. They make truffle jamón, yeah, the Iberico. It is an elite potato chip only for the wealthy, I would say. Even though I think Jose Andres has a part of that, though. He has his own line of potato chips, actually. Oh, does he? I feel like a potato chip is something that is greatly fetishized. You know what I mean? And the search for the perfect one is like a never ending thing for a lot of people. Right. Especially if you smoke enough weed. What's up with weed in Puerto Rico? You smoking that loud? Carry on. We're talking about how you smoke a lot of medical grade marijuana in Puerto Rico. Please expand on that. So basically you stopped working and you're high on the beach 12 hours a day. That sounds like a good life. I think you made the right decision. I mean, No, I'm not on the beach at all, actually, because we're not allowed to go to the beach right now. Damn, even midday. This is not even – this has nothing to do with – I'm getting flashbacks. It's weird because that's how L.A. was a month or two ago where you couldn't go to a park. There was a curfew. The beaches were closed, all that. And I have sort of just forgotten about that, which is bad, which means I need to smoke less weed, I suppose.

Yeah, it's about the pandemic. Yeah, we're not allowed on the beach. I mean, fuck. I don't know. That's the worst. I mean, I think people really have a tough time responding to that because they feel like that's like public land or something. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's really stupid. Well, when they start taking down the basketball hoops, you know it's really over. When they chain up the basketball hoop, the fun is over. I don't know. It's still like that in LA. There's a lot of that. You can still go to the park, but all the shit's taped off. Why go to the park, really? I don't really understand the logic. It sounds like leadership is failing us everywhere, guys. I go to the park just to read, Chris. Speaking of books, you have written a book covering veganism and capitalism. Is that correct? I am writing it. It's due next July. When do you have to turn it in? July. Could you expand on the intersection between veganism and capitalism? The book is about a cultural history of veganism in the United States for the last 50 years and the ways in which it at one point was a more political stance with, you know, kind of connections to ecofeminism, to anarchism, to a lot more animal rights-y stuff, etc. And so... and how it's been co-opted by wellness. You're speaking to two former members of the Animal Liberation Front. Oh, really? You're talking to two graduates of the PETA School of Veganism and Hardcore. Actually, I saw somebody tweeting a conspiracy they had that PETA is an organization created by the government to make people think that vegans and animal rights people are dumb. And I'm starting to kind of believe it with their, a lot of their new app. Then they'll post like pictures of billboards around town and advertisements in LA. And it really does kind of feel like they're trolling or they're just trying to see how far they can go to like just piss normal people off. Right. It's rough. So you, how long have you been vegan for? Since 2011.

Okay, so did you flirt with it at all when you were much younger or did it come to you at that age? Were you well aware of it? I was aware of it and I flirted, but I never took it on until I was in my mid-20s. So I know of what you speak of in terms of Animal Liberation Front, hardcore, etc. But I wasn't part of that necessarily. I was definitely on the periphery. of that world. And so, um, but yeah, so I came to it later and that the book is, is going to cover the last like 50 years. What was appealing to you about it? Was it, was it a health thing? Was it an animal thing? Was it just like a better way to live in general? I think it was, you know, both, uh, animals, better way to live. I realized, I think because I was always interested in it when I was younger, but I always really loved food. And so I was always worried that I would be eating less delicious food if I went vegan. Which is true. Yeah, and so I came to a point of, like, realizing that veganism didn't just mean, like, veganase and, like, tofu and seitan and that kind of shit. You're right. It includes French fries. Don't forget. It includes French fries, but it also, like, included, like, plants. And basically when I found a route into veganism that was also focused on, like, local seasonal, like. vegetables that was that was when i i realized i could once humans as a whole figured out how to make kale taste tolerable exactly changed the whole and then you had to you were able to put down your beyond meat glizzies and switch over to a more holistic approach it's really interesting to me because when i was younger that was definitely not the vegan diet it was not vegetables and local it was very much like pretty unhealthy um but still based in shopping at like independent health food stores and what comes along with that um but i think that the explosion of it in popularity is is really mind-blowing to me because as a teenager people didn't even know how to say the word um and i don't i don't know if i mean i think celebrities play a part in that a little bit as far as just like but do you think it's yeah my grandma thought i was gay because i was vegan

Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly the kind of shit that would happen. That's what I'm saying. So I wonder if... Before we got so rudely interrupted by the internet, I was trying to understand if the popularity of veganism, do you think it's celebrities and wellness combined as a fireball that made it so interesting to a mass audience? I think so. I think it's part of the, yeah, celebrities, wellness, like the, I don't think people are interested in being vegan, but I do think people are interested in like eating less meat or like having oat milk in their latte or something like that. I don't think people are interested in veganism as such. I think they're interested in like the, like just a more varied, you know, type of consumption. I would agree with you. Because of health reasons or just novelty? I want to try what this oat milk is all about. I think health and novelty both. I've seen a lot of people at cafes be eating a... ordering a... croissant with like cheese and egg on it and then also like an oat milk latte so like i don't i think i guess there's something about flavor there's something about novelty there's there's a few different things going on with it i do love your correct pronunciation of croissant as well yeah We can tell you're really in the business. That's a very LA thing to do though. I guess it's a little bit of a picking your battles type of thing or like the same type of person who like, oh, I don't smoke cigarettes. I do yoga and I'm vegan, but I also do cocaine twice a week. Yeah, I get it. Which is, it's like a weird juxtaposition that people seem to make fun of a lot. But I think it's, I like it a little bit of like picking your battles of like, I love cocaine so much or I love croissant with ham and cheese so much that I am maintaining my healthy lifestyle by offsetting that with an alternative milk. Right. Yeah, I think that's completely fine. I think that's totally valid. You know, whatever gets you through the day. Cocaine does.

Yeah, exactly. How often are you craving a non-vegan treat? Are you ever slipping up or are you nailed to the edge? Well, I actually, because since I moved to Puerto Rico, I'm like... I allow myself like 10% vegetarianism because it makes my life easier, especially with going out to eat or ordering in or something like that. It doesn't make the cow's life easier, though, does it? It does not make the cow's life easier, and that's valid. And I'm here to give a voice to the voiceless. Yes. But that's okay. I can tell you are well-trained by PETA. So, yeah, so I allow that. Okay, so what is the – do you have like a – a prescribed cheat thing back when Chris was was slurping down a lot of a lot of dairy he would treat himself to a large cheese pie um do you do you just see whatever the market has for you or is there like like okay once a week I eat this whatever quesadilla explosion or something Well, for me, I don't really like dairy. It's not a cheat thing for me in that I enjoy it so much that I just can't live without it. I can completely live without it. So you go straight to the meat? No, absolutely not. I don't know. There's this local cafe that me and my boyfriend would go to a lot. And now that they're closed, they're selling... a lasagna, um, every week to like kind of stay afloat. So I'll eat the lasagna a couple of times a month maybe. And then, um, occasional pizza, but not, not too much pizza. I think that's good. And I think if you, if you're going to cross those picket lines, a lasagna is, is using your time wisely. That's a fine cheese snack. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I trust their sourcing, so it's not like the worst. possible thing. Anyway. Are these restaurants surviving down there or has it been pretty bad? It's pretty bad. People are surviving though. They've pivoted. They've done what they need to do to stay afloat such as sell lasagna. Aren't we all pivoting? Yeah. I've been trying to kind of...

support in any way possible. People are doing different pop-ups and that sort of thing. I think similar to any urban area. What's the gratuity situation over there in Puerto Rico? Well, it is federal tips minimum wage, same as in the States. We tip, obviously. What do you think is happening with the future of tipping? There's a lot of convo about that right now. Well, I hope it's over, but it's going to have to be federally mandated to be over. The tipped minimum wage as a thing is pretty awful, and it has its roots in slavery, as we know. And so, yeah, I hope that we're seeing the end of it, but I don't know. I hope so as well. I don't think it will change for so long. Is it like you're saying it's because it needs to be federally mandated or it just won't happen? I think so, yeah. Because otherwise, if people can get away with paying less, they're going to pay less. I think it's just so deeply ingrained in our culture that it's just hard to shake. The metric system is better than... the imperial american measurement system but we just can't seem to shake it you know and thanks to cooking it is kind of starting to change you know with with uh weighing by volume and everything versus weighing weighing by weight yeah i i mean i i hope i put all my recipes in grams so i hope that's the way to do it oh yeah that's what real heads do yeah wow cool guys chris shut the fuck up I also saw your story about Angelica's kitchen, and I wanted to ask you about Kate's joint. Are you familiar? I'm familiar with Kate's joint, yeah. I feel like I was too much of a health vegan in the beginning. Yes, yes, yes. So it's hard for me to relate to that kind of vibe. So what is that vibe? I've never heard of Kate's before. I want to hear you describe the vibe, and then I'll see if I agree with the description.

Well, just like vegan fast food type thing. Yeah, it's not for me. Yeah, I didn't like food swings at all. It's for fat-ass vegans is what we're saying. Basically. I mean, it was also like a place you could party, which I think is really interesting. It had like a full bar. Right, which is so rare in veganism. Yeah, that is. But I don't know. But why, though? Because I feel like it's such a big way to make money. You know what I mean? And I don't think that. I don't think that like, because most vegans aren't really getting wasted on martinis and, and doing Coke and listening to music. You know, they're, they're at Sue N blessing their meal before they, they dig into their brown rice plate. No, you're right. Sue N. And do you think Sue N is bad or good? Bad. I mean, I don't really, uh, yeah, not for me again, but also like that, like for me, that like, it goes too far in the other direction. Um, you're saying Angelica is the, is the perfect mid ground. I think Angelica is like, I mean, I don't, I wouldn't say it's perfect. It wouldn't be perfect today in, in the current landscape of, of vegan food, but I think for its time, yeah, it did this nice balance between being accessible and being like macrobiotic. It didn't wear the macrobiotic thing on its sleeve as much as other places. I love it, but it's also a terrible restaurant. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? I think that's how most people feel about it. They really like it and they don't even know why, but they also don't ever want to go in there. Cage Joint was the opposite of that. Cage Joint was like, you really wanted to hang out there. Right. Which is tough for a vegan restaurant. What is one of their iconic dishes? For somebody like me who's never been. Kate's joint had a wing, a vegan wing. Was it on an actual wooden stick? No, that was pre the wooden stick thing. And they also had a club, like a classic hotel turkey club. Sure, sure, sure. I miss those wings on an actual wooden stick. That was one of the most fucked up times in alternative foods. Yeah, yeah. I don't, I mean.

What is Alicia? What is your take on all this fake meat? Cause I'm kind of like, I'm, I'm ready to go back to Boca burgers. I'm like kind of tired of all this shit. Oh, I, I prefer a Boca burger to an impossible burger any day. Yeah. Two boomers on the show. I like it. Shots fire. Fuck beyond fuck impossible. That's right. We don't, I just don't beyond fucks me up. Like I don't like the way it makes me feel. No, I mean, they both make me feel awful. What do you think that is? What do you think that is? I mean, they're like hyper-processed. They're genetically modified, hyper-processed. Yeah. I mean, Impossible Burgers now are, they do have genetically modified soy in them. And the Beyond Burger is like pea protein and like a bunch of other crap. It's just like not pleasant to eat in the same way that a burger made from like beans is. I don't know. So is pea protein crap? I don't think it – I mean, I don't know. If you want to put it in your smoothie, I don't care. But it's like I don't want to eat a smoothie. I wasn't asking to criticize. That was an actual question that I'm trying to know. If you want to put it in your smoothie, it's your funeral, bud. I don't give it to you. Yo, pea protein in the smoothie, that's cute for you. We prefer protein. Chris and I put hemp protein in our smoothies. I'm a hemp protein guy. Yeah, I was a hemp protein person when I was doing – protein smoothies yeah that was a thing when that was a time in your life where you did stuff like that yeah no smoothies for you didn't bring the Vitamix down to San Juan oh shit sorry it sounds like she just turned her Vitamix on do you have a manscaped 3.0 lawnmower going in the background are you flexing your Vitamix while out I think my neighbor is is sanding wood that's what's happening yo been there We had a full month of Jason's house being renovated on this podcast. So it was very interesting. We're familiar with that sound. This takes me back. Yeah. So I live in like a workshop. So everything is like 16th century colonial stuff. So I live in like an old mansion that's been converted into four apartments. That's pretty cool.

That sounds great. Yeah, it's great. Except that my neighbor has like a woodworking situation in his half of the patio. And so occasionally, one cannot ever anticipate when he'll be... Does he at least build beautiful wares? I have no idea what he builds. But he's like 92, so I don't know what he... Yeah, you got it. This hobby is keeping me alive. Exactly. I can't complain and I can't ask him to stop. What's the home kitchen setup looking like? Well, it's a really small kitchen, but it's functional. I've made it functional. But I don't have a Vitamix. No, I gave up smoothies a long time ago. I feel a little smoothie shade there. What's going on? No, no, it's no shade. It's just that. Do you think that smoothies are for babies to drink only and not grownups? No, I just really, I associate it with like a very like weird time in my life of like just a lot of yoga. I don't know, like measuring olive oil into pan. Like it reminds me of like, of just like eating really like weirdly. So you mean like when you would cook? food you would you would have your your jar or your container of olive oil and then you would measure in how much you would put in the pan to yeah like so you were calorie counting I was counting calories, and that's when I was in the smoothie mood, and so I associate it with that. So that is a trigger for your calorie-counting food trauma of your past. I think so, yeah. I mean, it's not super traumatic. I don't have real food trauma. It's important not to downplay your traumas, even if it is something as minimal as calorie-counting. Chris and I both suffer from extreme body dysmorphia, so this is a safe place to discuss anything. You laugh, I cry. I've never counted calories before, which is kind of crazy because it seems like something I'd be really into, but I don't weigh myself or count calories. It just seems like too much. Yeah, for sure. He's afraid to see what happens. Did you use an app for it? Me? Yeah.

When I was into it, yeah, I think I had some app that was the calorie. It was like something. I can't remember the name of it. Yeah, I think it really is a bad way to live. It's a dark one. Yeah, it's awful. Well, I think that's maybe another reason why a lot of people have, to answer your question, Chris, about why people are going vegan, they might see it as a way to just simplify weight loss and healthy eating. I can eat whatever I want as long as I'm vegan. And I'm not eating meat. I'm not eating cheese. I'm not eating animal products. So I should be able to do whatever the fuck I want in the kitchen and still lose weight. And I think that is a trap that a lot of people fall into with veganism. Yeah, I would agree with that. Because I was probably the fattest and you were probably your fattest when we were both vegan. Definitely, 100%. But I do think the rise of healthy eating is – like even my parents, you know what I mean? Like it's trickled all the way down now, which is – I don't think they really get what it means or if they're doing it right, but they like think about it. So I think it's gone much further than I ever thought it would go. True. True that. Alicia, so I wanted to talk to you about newsletter stuff. Sure. So you use Substack, is that correct? I do use Substack, just like most everybody else, I think. Now it's like a joke to have a Substack. We're MailChimp 5 on this side, but continue. We were, our last podcast episode, we were talking about this. Do you find that Substack is ugly looking? Or are you okay with it? At first, I didn't want to use it because I didn't like how it looked. And I didn't like that everyone's like... things looked the same. Um, but then I was like, uh, whatever. Um, it makes it really easy to monetize and that's obviously it's big selling point. Yeah. So, and they do do a lot of stuff for the, for writers. Like now there's a legal defense thing. Um, because I got a fellowship in their last round of like fellowship searches or something. I didn't know they did that.

Yeah, so I mean, I got only an honorary mention, which I was a little salty about, but they gave me money, and also I get access to their legal team and Getty Images if I need that, and we do consulting on strategy and stuff. That's nice. Damn, Substack, you're changing my mind on Substack. That's pretty progressive for a platform. Yeah, no, it works out pretty well. Yeah, I mean, that's my kind of stack. For all the content that you put out, there's different tiers. What is the percentage breakdown versus editorial, thoughtful food writing versus recipes in terms of content? I'm just asking this strictly from a personal place. I'm trying to figure out how to make money talking about food as well. If I were to start my own, what would you recommend be the mix between recipe writing and then just editorial writing? Well, I was going to experiment with recipes for the newsletter, and then I was like, no. A little too Alison Romany? I get it. It's too much. Yeah, so I just write essays on Monday. That's for everyone, free for everybody. Wednesdays, there's a discussion thread with everybody. And then Fridays is when I put out an interview with whoever I spoke to that week. And then I do do a lot. Sorry to interrupt. The discussion thread, is that on Discord? Slack? It's on Substack. It's for the paid subscribers to the newsletter. So they'll get the email. So Substack has a built-in chat room message board situation. Kind of. Yeah, it's like a thread, a comment thread. But it works like a message board. Yeah. And so then I do do a lot of recipes for Tenderly, which is a vegan website where I'm a contributor. And that's fun. But it's not like...

I guess I do two recipes a month for them, but it's really just based on whatever I've been cooking. Basically, I make all my money now just putting out in the world whatever I'm thinking about or whatever I'm cooking. It's very not living the dream, really. That sounds like it's living the dream. I mean, that sounds like what I'm doing with my life on Instagram stories for no money. which is why I'm asking you how I do that to make the money. I can't tell you how to make money. It's been such a weird, gradual thing. Now I don't want to write for anybody else. Is the newsletter leading to more work, though? It could be if I felt like doing it, yeah. You're turning down all these offers that come in because you're like, this is a waste of my time. Or are you just lazy? I don't think I'm lazy because doing the newsletter and writing a book is like a full-time job. I'm only taking freelance writing assignments now if I really want to do them. Right now, because of the newsletter, a lot of editors are like, hey, write an opinion piece. And I'm like, no. I do one opinion piece a week already for my newsletter. It pays more than $250. Thanks, guys. Exactly. I mean, but that's really what it becomes. That's what is so interesting about this newsletter stuff and why I think we talk about it so much. It's like, are people going to care about contributing to these places that aren't top, top tier when there's no money in it and you already have a direct connection with your fan base? What's the point? Yeah, I don't see the point anymore. I think we're seeing that in almost every type of content. No, totally. But if less is the New York Times, the New Yorker, a couple other things, it's like, why would I do this? What's the point for me? And that's just for now. That could change. Nobody could care about any of those in a couple years. Yeah. Speaking of publications, I don't know if you've heard, but there's this one called Bon Appetit in America.

I've been going through some things. I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that situation. I want to refrain from ever talking about Bon Appetit again. I think I am just so sick of talking about it. I just don't care anymore at all. Nothing is going to change. Thank you. Welcome to my brain. Continue. I think you guys are frustrated for two different reasons. That's true. So you said nothing's going to change as in the way media is reformed by the white male patriarchy, et cetera? Yeah, I mean, look, they, I mean, and talking about this makes me feel, I don't like talking about it because I don't actually care about Bon Appetit, like, in general. Like, I just don't care. But at the same time, I'm like, I am a food writer, so I do have to, like, know what's going on. But I'm not, like, going to pretend to be, heartbroken that like, I don't know that like someone walked away from like, I don't know. I don't think it's like a big affair for someone to walk away from like doing a thousand dollars a day for video, like on principle. I don't know. I'm like, you know, there are people who have no money right now in the restaurant industry, especially so many people out of work. So many people. No longer getting their extra $600 a week from unemployment. So many people in the restaurant industry who are never eligible for unemployment because of their immigration status. And so for me to give a fuck that these people are walking away from a corporate job as though it is a revolution, I just don't care at all. I like that a lot. And like Marcus Samuelson, them picking him to like do a guest editor thing. It's like, I don't know. It's just the most safe and obvious. Marcus Samuelson ain't been relevant in years. I'm not even a food person. No, exactly. Like he's just not relevant and he's not doing anything new and he's not going to like make any, say anything that's going to really rock the boat in his, when he takes the editorship or something for one issue.

Um, so yeah, I just, it's, it's, you know, Bon Appetit will continue to be Bon Appetit and Conde Nast will be Conde Nast. So, well, I mean, I think the way, you know, the way that you're doing your, you know, your newsletter and your content platform and, you know, Alison Roman have me being forced to go into that world as well. I think that could be a real true future for it of like, why would I, why would I give, you know, 20 bucks a month or a year to Bon Appetit? when I can just give it straight to somebody like you or Alison Roman or whoever who I really believe in and I want to support and make sure they get all that money because they're my person. They're my girl who gets me and speaks to me and cooks all the food I love. Do you subscribe to stuff? Do you also find yourself reading a lot of newsletters or are you more of a writer of newsletters? No, no, I subscribe. But you don't pay. I do pay. Yeah, I pay. Who the fuck would pay for a newsletter? I pay. Seriously, I pay. Yeah, I pay for Vittles, which I love, from London, which is a food newsletter. Indigestion, which my friend James runs, also out of London. Sourced, which is a new one on food origins and food history. I pay for Matambre, which is a bilingual food newsletter out of Buenos Aires. Damn. Yeah. Damn, you just listed off. That's fire. How much do these newsletters cost per month on average? Well, I pay yearly for most of them. The Matambre, I pay like a few bucks a month. It's nothing crazy. Oh, I pay for Stained Page News, which is about cookbooks news too. Do you listen to podcasts? That's a thing I don't do that much. It's okay. We don't either. I do. That was part of the reason I was asking you is because as a person who we record three shows a week and it's like, you know, we spend a lot of time doing this. I don't actually, I don't actually listen to that many podcasts anymore. Right. So why, why, why do you, because you're sick of pod of just audio in general or what is the reason? I don't know. I just, it doesn't, I don't know.

I can't explain it. It's just like, I just think I consume so much all the time. There's one or two I want to listen to, but that era of like discovery, being super excited about it. The bloom is off the rose for you. Exactly. Exactly. But that's fine. Do you watch TV and movies and stuff? Are you mostly, are you just not, are you checked out from some of that stuff? She might just listen to jazz on vinyl only. Exactly. Exactly. No, I watched lots of movies. And I just finished The Americans, which is a TV show. Brother, that is a TV show. That is a TV show. Actually, my vinyl is still in New York, so I only list stream music. You're a title girl, aren't you? Yeah, I was about to say, how much is your title subscription? That's a lot of charity. They might not have that down there. Actually, I wanted to talk. What was I? Oh, sorry. Your common food podcast question or just food in general question is the classic deathbed meal. Oh, shit. I want yours and I want Chris's vegan deathbed meal. Oh. Or do you break your veganism to eat meat or dairy for your final deathbed meal since it doesn't matter? God isn't real, et cetera. Follow-up question, do you believe in God? I do, actually. Yeah, but I think my meal would be a Yuba Verde from Superiority Burger. Oh. Great choice. That's my neighborhood go-to. I live right down the street. I've actually never had that. It comes up on the show. I know that Yuba is a tofu skin and verde is green, but can you describe that dish in a way that would make me really smack my lips? I mean, I wish I could. I haven't had one in so long. But yeah, it's like fried yuba and a bunch of green stuff, and it's a little spicy. You can get a small one or a big one. I don't know. If I was eating one, I could describe it more like a food writer. So deathbed meal, fried tofu skin with some green stuff on top. You guys, I'm going to say that's not good enough. Chris, what do you got?

Man, I mean, I guess it would either be a pizza. Come on, fat boy. Which, honestly, I don't even care where it's from. I mean, if I was going to die, I think the last thing I want to eat is pizza. But are you going to go pepperoni since this is your death? You're going to stick to cheese only. A classic margarita would be fine for me. But if it had to be vegan, Jason, I think it might be the big macro from MCafe. Ooh, the original. Are you familiar with this, Alicia? No, I'm not. So M Cafe is like a restaurant in L.A. that is, Jason, how would you describe it? It peaked in like 2008. Yeah, it is basically a macrobiotic cafe that kind of has like an Erewhon type of energy of like an expensive, hot, attractive people, vegan cafe place where it's overpriced and it's worth it. But I'm saying that's what it was in 2008. So think about that with a little grunge. You know what I mean? The corners are a little dusty. You might see a member of the band AFI appear there. Exactly. But they do a homemade veggie burger and they have a special sauce with it. It just really hits for me. I just think that the veggie burger done well. I think it's a lost art now because no one wants to do a homemade anymore because everyone's just going to get impossible or beyond. That is true. I mean, I used to eat those black bean burgers from the restaurant chain Chili's when I was a youngster. Of course. Well, my favorite that we've talked about on the show before is Houston's. The upmarket chain has their very good homemade veggie burger. And it's something you really can get when you're in a third tier city. Houston's is washed. Really hits the spot. You know what I mean? Really hits the spot. Really hits the spot. Are there a lot of vegan restaurants in San Juan? Is it a thing there? It's a thing. There's a couple of vegan places, but it's more of a thing out in the west of the island, like Rincon, where there's a lot more surfy vibe, a lot more white dudes with dreadlocks. So there's a lot more veganism out there. Don't come for Jason like that.

I have been to. My hair dreads very well. Thank you very much. I've been to Rincon before and it was like not for me for those reasons. Yeah. Do you think you're going to live in Puerto Rico forever? It depends on how things go. What kind of thing? Yeah. With your life partner or with the world? With my life partner, not in terms of whether we're going to be together or not, but in terms of maybe he wants to do a PhD and probably do that in Spain. And so we'd go to Spain. Where do you think? And depending on if you're ever legally allowed to enter the country of Spain again. Exactly. Yeah. So there will be a lot of choices to be made once we're allowed in the European Union again, I think. God, that's true for all of us. I can't wait to escape to the south of France and be blasting a cig shirtless on a beach. Your partner's PhD is cute and all, but he really wants to smoke cigarettes in France. I'm really focused on important stuff. Before we go, I would like to know, what's your number one vegan packaged snack that we can buy at Whole Foods? Damn. I'm not like a packaged snack. Chris is a snack master, but packaged snacks, Chris, are bad for the environment. I consider myself to be a snack master. I can look at the aisle and pluck something from obscurity that will tickle your taste buds. Right. But I didn't know if maybe you had a little secret for me that I didn't know about or I wasn't aware of. I mean, if I was going to Whole Foods and I needed a snack, it's been so long. Jesus. Because I used to go to the Whole Foods by Bryant Park, the library, all the time. Do not say an assortment of mango slices or something like that. No. We're talking some shit that is made out of nacho cheese flavored kale shit. You know what I mean? Maybe. I don't know. Capricorn chips?

I'm only a potato chip person, really. I'm not a corn chip person. I would probably get a chocolate bar. I would probably get Rocca chocolate, or I'd get Justin's peanut butter cups. Okay, now we're talking. Justin's dark chocolate almond butter cup? I am in. Yeah, yeah. So definitely that. You guys have a lot of blood on your hands if you're eating that type of chocolate. Yeah, exactly. I only support Tony's chocolate. Tony's has great packaging, but I mean, that is really, damn, I want a Justin's Peanut Butter Cup pretty bad now. Yeah, I don't think I could get them here. Maybe I could go to Starbucks. I don't know. Wait, you used to work at Starbucks, right? I did used to work in Starbucks. Did you give away so much stuff? Yes. Did you steal money? And I stole so much stuff. Yes, I knew it. What are you stealing, though? Money. No, I didn't steal. Money? You're stealing syrup packets or copies of the Cranium board game? Just a lot of lemon loaf, a lot of yogurt parfaits. Yeah, a lot of crap. like free frappuccinos, a lot of experimenting with flavors. Yes. See, I knew when you said you were hardcore adjacent, I had a feeling that this would come into play because a lot of hardcore kids that I grew up with worked at Starbucks and they make these insane vegan beverages, actually. And give us these, like, you just priced 2,000 calories. Yes. Back when hanging out with your bros who work at Starbucks is the only social activity that you can really do. Because you are not using your time wisely by trying to have sex with other people. Exactly. No, there's none of that happening. What location did you work in? I worked at one on Long Island in a town called Bohemia. Damn, that sounds made up. A Long Island Starbucks. Yep. So you never worked at one in the city because that's dark, I think.

No, I think that would be, yeah, that would be a lot. It was, it had a drive through though, and it was 24 hours. So it was like a pretty hardcore Starbucks. Have you ever had a chance to sample the sous vide egg from Starbucks? I have not. And I don't think I will. I don't think. Thank you. Welcome to the team. I understand people. People romanticize that fucking dump is disgusting. I hate Starbucks. I hate it. I hate it. Well, you know, some people. The product is not good. It's not even funny good. It's just bad. Yeah. It's airport only. True. But I have some nostalgia for getting a nasty, stinky little soy latte from Starbucks every once in a while with that full, full sugar soy milk going. Well, to be fair, they were on their... They were early on the alternative milk for a cane. Remember soy milk? When's the last time you had fucking soy milk? Ages ago. Ages. It's macadamia only on this side. Is that just over? Is soy milk done? I think so, yeah. I think it's over. Yeah, because it gives guys breasts. It makes your breasts grow because you have a lot of estrogen in the soybean. That's my favorite. Which is something that... Chris and I could be working on, actually. Our bird-like chests could use any voluption as we need. We need to drink more soy. Alicia, thank you for joining us. Tell people where they can find you on the World Wide Web. AliciaKennedy.Substack.com AliciaKennedy on Twitter and AliciaDKennedy on Instagram because I fucked up. I hate that for you. I hate that for you. I've been there myself. I hate that for you. That is because I fucked up my own name. Hopefully our listeners that are interested in food and the world around it will subscribe to the newsletter so you never have to write for another crooked publication again in your life. Amazing. Thank you. Thanks for taking the time to pod with us. Thanks. Thank you for having me. Bye, guys.