032. - Jesse David Fox

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Want to make a podcast? Spotify's got a platform that lets you make one super easily, then distribute it everywhere, and even earn money. We like that. All in one place for totally free. It's called Spotify for Podcasters. And here's how it works. Spotify for podcasters lets you record and edit podcasts right from your cellular telephone or your computer. So no matter what your setup is like, you can start creating today. Then you can distribute your podcast to Spotify and everywhere else, those other places that podcasts are heard. Video podcasts are also available on Spotify. And when you want to take conversations with your fans to the next level, Q&As and polls are the best way to get them talking. With Spotify for podcasters, you can earn money in a variety of ways, including ads and... and podcast subscriptions. And best of all, it's totally free. Zero catch. We've been using it ever since we started How Long Gone. And ever since I discovered Spotify for Podcasters, I feel like having the option of turning off the Q&As and the polls on the user dashboard has really helped boost my creativity and take it to another level. I highly recommend giving it a try. Download the Spotify for Podcasters app or go to www.spotify.com slash podcasters to get started.

Hello. Big TJ, what's good, baby? Big TJ is, you know, just hot off another workout. More cold brew. The saga continues. Damn, it really, damn, shit really do stay the same. I got my big body cross, shout out to Crossrope for sending me an expensive jump rope that weighs a lot. It is really knocking the dust off of my pussy. Hard body. So what's the deal with this shit? It's weighted so it's harder? It's weighted so it's harder and also it has an app that you can use where it tracks your stuff. It'll track how many spins you do somehow. There's sensors in the handle or some shit. Damn, it's just like DJing. It's just like DJing. But I'm not used to a heavy-weighted rope, and it is challenging. That seems like the kind of thing where it doesn't have to be that much weight to make a big difference. No, the rope and the handles, the whole weight is under five pounds probably. And doing it for 60 seconds, I get winded. I get fucked up. Damn. Yeah, you'd probably like it, Chris. I love advancements in TJ's workout. I mean, it's hot here now. It's fucking 86 degrees as we speak. Fahrenheit or Celsius? I only speak in Fahrenheit because I'm a Luddite American. So you're out here wearing shorts now? Yeah, man. I mean, I worked out outside today with the kettlebell and it was fucking brutal. Like dripping sweat at like 10 a.m. Did you do TJ's kettlebell workout? uh i do that video i like i like being led a little more it's i i still just i think the counting and stuff helps me like zonk out a little you know what i mean not have to like be so aware of what i'm doing sure zonk me yeah that's a great workout man i love it and um so you're wearing you're wearing shorts it's hot as hell i you are able to get a good sock to pair well with the um

The Ben and Jerry's SBs. Yeah, I saw your little joke, TJ. I saw you try to get a little joke off about me copping the Chunky Dunkies. What do you mean joke? I just want to say, well, I mean, look, you're lucky. You and everybody else in my life is lucky I don't know how to use Photoshop because I have the ideas, but unfortunately I don't have to know how. have some good ideas and the know-how, so you're able to roast me with a form that looks like I lost a raffle for the Chunky Dunkey. I will, instead of that, I will just receive the thank you for not posting it on Twitter and only posting it on my Instagram stories. I did give you that. I mean, I think I've been pretty vocal about how I feel about the Chunky Dunkey, but I also, I mean, you know. But you're also an entrepreneur, even though it's possible for you to invest, buy shares in a company that you don't believe in or even enjoy simply as an investment. Exactly. I would absolutely invest in those and flip them. You know those chunkies are hitting? The chunkies are hitting. I don't even know. We should check StockX right now and see how much the chunkies are. I saw somebody post something that was at 4Racks. No. But that could be false. No, I believe it, dude. That's the level this shit is at, fam. Yeah, no. Is it four? Yeah. We were driving in Little Tokyo yesterday, hitting the Japanese market, and there was like a sneaker store of some kind. It's like a fake flight club type of place. And there was just a line of bros, noon on a Monday, Memorial Day, you know, 80 degrees. Perfect outdoor barbecue weather and just a line of dudes doing curbside sneaker pickup. I mean, that's way cooler than barbecuing, dude. Come on. No, it is not. Just alone wearing your fucking like sweat, like Jordan sweat shorts, you know, wearing the worst fit of all time, but like brand new crispy shoes that cost more than your car. And then that's just your life.

i mean come on bro if you want if you want to disparage these young entrepreneurs um well that's the thing these people are older than older than we are these are grown grown men i know i mean i i guess that the from my understanding and i'm sure some fucking listener will let me know i'm wrong but the the the resale thing at this point only really works with sneakers And very special items. The era of everything Supreme made just selling for double when it costs is over. What do you think that is? I think Supreme tried to combat it by making their clothes more fucked up and ugly and weird on purpose to curtail all the basics who were buying it all up, maybe? they could be also just making more quantities you know what i mean like actually making more so it's like if you can get it i mean but it's also like if you're i mean i don't know if mr carlisle said we got to re-up exactly if you're gonna sell something and make 20 on a t-shirt is it worth standing in line for i don't know if it's worth buying online it's a good point like fuck that you're making 10 10 dollars like that's less whack bro Yeah, but first you get to make $10 off of that, but you also get to have something. You get content. Well, that's true, and it's a community. I think we're forgetting about that portion of it. People will pay money just to be like, all right, here I am. That really is part of it. I've seen these dorks say that verbatim. Like, oh, it's the community, the line. You don't get it. You know what I mean? I'm sure bowling is a community too, but I'm all set on that. It is a community, and it's a community. It's just like video games. You get to sit on a chat room with other people who know about this stuff, and then you get to say funny things about it. I mean, I guess that's what this podcast is about other stuff. Yeah, that's what you and I have been doing our whole lives, except it was on, you know. Damn, so this is basically a Twitch stream now, I guess.

I mean, if we want to monetize, yeah. I mean, we do want to monetize, right? Yeah, that's a goal. That's a goal of mine. Okay, well, I guess I'll download Twitch then, figure out how it works. Just the thought of, out of the two of us, you being the one who goes down that journey. I mean, wait till I pull up on you with some knowledge. Maybe I should have used this quarantine time more wisely to learn a skill like I promised I would at the beginning. Like Twitch? I mean, not Twitch. If you became like a coder in the quarantine. That'd be cool. Yeah, that would be really cool. I could take Carly Kloss's online class. Does she have an online class for coding? No, but she's a known proponent of women in code. I guess it would be called a Kloss. Yes, it would. We're just getting these jokes out. Well, we got to get our jokes ready for our guest today. Yes, our guest today is the host of a comedy podcast called Good One. That's what it's called, right? Yes, it is the... Jesse David Fox is his name. Yeah, it's called Good One Podcast. It's Vulture New York Magazine affiliated. He's also a senior editor at Vulture. So I guess he just gets these comedians on and they explain a joke to him in detail, which is really wild to me. It's a real, you know, it's a comedy nerds podcast for sure. If you want to, you know, you want the behind the scenes, you know, it's the equivalent of, you know, making, making the band or making the album or whatever. But instead of it being, you know, Fleetwood Mac rumors, it's Seinfeld talking about what's the deal. Well, I'd like to ask him what he thinks about the rumor I heard today that Azalea Banks had sex with Dave Chappelle. If I was Dave Chappelle, I would smash just to see what it's like. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he did. I mean, that sounds believable. But that's going to be some voodoo pussy. It's going to fuck your life up. Damn, well put, TJ. Always a poet. Yeah, but Jesse, his podcast just today.

has the Oh Hello guys on it, John Mulaney and Nick Kroll. But he's had everyone from Seinfeld to Sinbad. It's true. I mean, Oh Hello is probably the only two comedians I like, so I would love to get into that. Nick Kroll is truly the god. The Kroll show, I mean, we've talked about it for years. It was ahead of its time. I don't know why it stopped. Did he just stop it to stop it? Yeah, I mean, I guess. Maybe he wanted to be on to... brighter pastures you know he maybe he thought he was going to get these movies off or something like that yeah that didn't work out um all right well let's uh let's let's let's call jesse okay let's call jesse all right this episode of how long gone is brought to you by squarespace obviously jason you and i spent a lot of time on the worldwide web sort of our peers our listeners our friends our colleagues obviously maybe even your parents if they're freaky um and if you're doing anything in the world writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept quote unquote donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How Long Gone.

It was brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. And, I mean, it... How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive. And that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code how long with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated.

but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. What up? Hello. Yo. How you living? How's it going? Pretty good. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. This is weird podcasting with somebody who has a very podcast voice. Yeah, I feel like Iron Glass allowed people with this sort of voice to podcast. Why don't you describe your voice in your own words? Yeah, please. Give us the play-by-play. It's like it's nasally and it's stammery. Stammery? I don't know if that's a real word, but I like it. Very descriptive. Because I feel like... Broadcasters traditionally are supposed to be low-voiced and direct and clear. And Aira has allowed it so the vocabulary for a podcasting host is like, well, I guess we might have a show for you. And that's allowed me to thrive. So he opened the doors for those with more of a virginal voice tone to prosper in this world. I think so. Someone with like a deep baritone and a slight Southern drawl like myself, we're just more of a throwback, you know, a traditional broadcaster. I will say from listening, I was like, you guys have voices that like, they're almost, how would I put it? I'm trying to think. It feels.

almost alien to the medium. I mean, like you guys are like, it's like a different species has come through and you forget that people are allowed to sound. Like when you see a really hot person graduate from an Ivy league school, you're like, person is too hot to be a double major and blah, blah, blah. Exactly. Exactly. That's it. I mean, I think that I, Ira Glass and your voice, I really like, you know, I can't deal with the daily guy. It's too much. I've actually never even listened to The Daily. I was going to say, I haven't either. That seems off-brand for you, David, and I like that. Very off-brand for you, David. I feel like you're a guy who devours knowledge. What podcasts do you listen to, Jesse? I listen to... Let me think. I listen to mostly comedy podcasts. I listen to Comedy Bang Bang, Hollywood Handbook. The Hollywood Handbook guys have a basketball Patreon I listen to embarrassingly called The Flavored Ones. Are you a hoop man? Yes. I've gotten into it more recently. I had to do it. It's worth it for me to pay for a podcast even though there's 9 million to listen to. Is that the only one that you patronize? Yes, that's the only one I patreonized. I've never listened to it, but I think Hollywood Handbook on a Good Day is one of the funniest podcasts ever made. It's so good. Yeah, and it's just exactly what I want to hear when I don't want to be thinking about something. And then they also say smart things about basketball that is useful to hear. It's as much as podcasting is like hanging out with friends, but you don't actually know them. it's like exactly what I was looking for. So I don't actually have to have conversations about basketball myself. Do you think that, do you think that your listening has ramped up because basketball doesn't exist right now? Do you like, like filling the void? I mean, you know? Yeah. I mean, I think I, no, honestly, I was thinking about it. Like I, I, it is harder to listen to because it truly is like, it's harder to talk about because there's nothing to talk about. Yeah. I mean, if you want, like, I feel like I was like getting on a rhythm of watching.

Twitter clips of certain ESPN shows where I feel like I think the people are pretty smart. I think that guy Nick Wright or whatever his name is is pretty smart. And now you watch clips from what ESPN debate shows are talking about now. And it is an embarrassment. I feel so bad that these professional people who generally are pretty interesting have to every day argue if Michael Jordan or LeBron James are better. I feel so bad. It's truly some lunchroom bullshit now. I agree. They have nothing to talk about. The coolest thing going on is the Asian baseball leagues with robots in the sands. That's the most interesting sports thing that's happened in a long time. We've debated the last dance on this podcast a lot because I call bullshit on it because Michael Jordan had Final Cut. How did you feel about it as a b-ball head? As I grew up, I'm from New York, but I grew up a Bulls fan as people who were growing up that time were allowed to do. So I watched nonstop Michael Jordan documentaries from the age of like nine to 15. So I feel like all of this is the stuff you see when you watch a Michael Jordan documentary. Yeah, for sure. So I kind of liked it because it like reminded me of watching a Michael Jordan documentary, which is like totally, I didn't find it like revelatory. But yeah, I mean, it's like clearly on the side of making Michael Jordan seem like a good, like not as bad of a guy. Let's not go as far as to say good, but not as bad. And just completely justifies. Like the whole point of the entire thing was like heavy weighs the crown. If you were me, you would be an asshole too. And it's okay. And I'm like, that is a very, like, it's just handled in such a way where you're like, this is exactly how Michael Jordan would want it to be portrayed. Yes. And that's how I want Michael Jordan to portray it as well. I mean, the world needs to have some dicks, I say. Yeah. I mean, I think it's okay to be a dick when you're that good at something. And that's the reality. As we've talked about before, we'll forgive anything if you give us talent. I mean, Michael Jackson, no one really cares. You know what I mean? It's kind of fun because everybody grew up with it. It's kind of insane.

But like other people, you know, it just depends. But if you've given us enough, you get a pass in this world. I do think I'm trying to think of like he the doc, what the documentary does is try to make it seem like to be that good. You have to be an asshole, which is a bold claim that there's no like I understand the idea that we forgive people that are great, which is debatable. But like the documentary is implying that you can't be great unless you're an asshole. Like there's it's not allowed. There's no way around it. The only way to succeed. Like, And I wonder if like, I don't know, like LeBron James seems, if anything, like weirdly normal. Considering his life, LeBron James seems like a corny, great, talented person who like lives a pretty normal life and is not an asshole. And I feel like Michael Jordan tries to prove that he's better than LeBron James by... weighing the scales mean like to be great you have to be an asshole and lebron james is not an asshole which means he's probably not as good as i am like it's like a weird great argument great argument great argument he created a value system that allowed for exactly his personality type to define what being great at basketball was maybe he's smarter than we thought i mean i mean so yeah there's some trump-like tendencies coming out of those quotes yeah a little bit Big Trumpito energy. I've decided that I'm too nice to be good at anything. That's my new outlook on life. I can't dominate. I'm just too friendly. When does the nice start happening, Chris? It's going to come out later. Maybe 40. I think I'll start to unveil it. It's going to be a slow rollout. Thanks for doing this pod, by the way. When we were talking and organizing the show, You had mentioned about our method of recording on FaceTime. And then I was listening to your episode today with the Oh Hello podcast guys. And there were some multiple Squadcast dropouts going on. Yes. FailingSquadcast.com. And I noticed that you mentioned there was a disclaimer at the beginning of the episode saying like, hey, there were some dropouts, blah, blah, blah.

But you also included to mention what service that you used that was dropping out. And I feel like a lot of people are probably going to listen to it because Oh Hello is a very big podcast and a big show. I think Squadcast, you could have put them out of business right now. Well, I will say two things. One, I did use Squadcast and it did drop out multiple times. And we've been using Squadcast this whole time. every time there's been at least one issue and it's just sort of like not intuitive but the i will say the reason i mentioned squad cast by name is and why we didn't cut around the dropouts is because every time i dropped out they did something funny and often would do jokes about squad cast like they did at one point At one point, they rift about squad goals, and I was like, well, that's funny, and I'd rather keep that in, but it doesn't make sense unless people know that Squadcast exists. Yeah, I thought you would say that, and I would probably do the same in your situation, I would say. It was a debate, and then I was like, I owe nothing to Squadcast. They have not totally worked literally every episode. I feel bad because, like, who are they? They're just offering us a free platform. But, like, I recorded an episode. the next day over zoom because squad cast wasn't working and the person was able to record locally. And I was like, this is so much better to be able to see the person for it to feel a little bit more immediate. It's I, I, I like that approach, but I think our approach, although low fi and also problematic sound wise from time to time, I think because it feels like a phone call, people are a little bit disarmed. Yes. I didn't think about it until we started doing it. Like I'd never considered that before. Yeah. I think the ones I've done without seeing a person, I've only done two episodes without seeing Mark Maron couldn't, this was pre quarantine. I didn't Mark Maron and we couldn't figure out how to do it. And he was like, I'll just call you right now. And like, we're able to hack it together and it was felt really intimate. And then.

um hannah gaspy was another one who did it over the phone and it did feel much more intimate than when you kind of see you're like especially because you can see yourself and you're not paying attention and it like reminds i remember when i used to the only times i've done interviews over landlines it like straight up felt like in high school calling high school girlfriends and being like just like talking for hours like it feels so much more intimate you forget how bad our means of communications are like you forget how bad like iphones are at phone calls when you like use actual phones maybe we should invest in that tj i like that idea that'd be cool we should get a corded landline and we can we can twirl the twirl the cord through our fingers as we exactly all day and when and when my mom picks up i gotta tell her to hang up mom on the phone with bay just uh you you seem to do a very good you know, an impressive job at getting large names on your show. Can you give us tips on how we might be able to do that as well? Sure. Yeah. Jesse, just to preface this, we've been called the, you know, some people have called us the important hipster podcast. So that's where our brand is now. So we need to branch out to a different, you know, advertising level. where, you know, the Seinfelds of the world, the Marc Marons of the world, we need to start securing those. Yeah, I mean, you guys got Alison Roman when she was still allowed to speak publicly. So that was huge. That was huge. I mean, I think it is, you know, I was able to convince people it was going to be a nice time. It's how it started, where I threw whatever means. told people like hey you know it's going to be no funny business we're just going to talk about your son this sounds like you're trying to convince a girl to sleep with yeah it's going to be a nice time no funny business this is not going to work for us we this whole podcast is funny business that's the whole point that's what i'm pointing out which is like you guys are the exact opposite which is like like i think performers like the idea that they know what to expect and even though

And that I'll do a lot of prep and know about them and be very respectful. And I think a lot of... Damn. That's the antithesis of our business model. Yes. And I think... I mean, a publicist would be like, so what's, if they ask you, I imagine a publicist would be like, so what's the show like? And it's like, oh, it's freewheeling. And they're like, nevermind, no way. Freewheeling? Wait, you talk to publicists? These guys have publicists? Oh, fuck. I've talked to some publicists. Well, I guess I've talked to agents more and we're all, everybody's friendly. You know what I mean? We're still at that point where it's like once removed. But, you know, I've also just done some blind Hail Marys and they've worked out, you know, but a lot of it, I would say 80% of people are friends of friends or actual friends. But there are also plenty of podcasts that are quote unquote freewheeling, you know. You know, when Elon Musk goes on Joe Rogan, you know, his publicist isn't going like, are you guys going to talk about marijuana? You know, like you kind of know what you're getting. And some people might enjoy a free wheel. Yeah, I think there's the free wheel in Joe's book because. of relationships or i have to imagine those people listen to those shows like i have to imagine like elon musk is a joe rogan fan like that doesn't happen by accident um but i guess like um like when you listen to hollywood handbook for example sometimes you can tell when the guest has no idea what's going on yes and you can sort of see like oh fuck this is going to be an hour of this like and and it's fun to listen to I don't really know where I'm going with that, but there can be magic in listening to a celebrity guest slowly just hate the process and then it's kind of drug out and they know it and they make it even worse. I like that type of destruction. Do you listen to any freewheeling podcast though?

Or is freewheeling just not your shit? You're more of a structure queen, I could tell. Yeah, I don't know if I listen to anything freewheeling. Not anymore. I think in my early days, my foot in the door as a journalist was reviewing comedy podcasts, so I feel like I listen to sort of everything. All right, Moneybags. Yeah, that's a tough job, dude. I bet you had to hear some fucking garbage. Jesus Christ. This was eight, nine years ago. So this was like sort of, I guess, what would be considered second wave, but to many people was sort of first wave. And it was just sort of like shows. There's like only one network at the time. Like it was like really a lot of DIY stuff. And I listened to like 15 hours of podcasts a day. What? Not a day. Sorry, a week. Sorry, a day would be crazy because there's only 24 hours a day. 15 hours of podcasts a week is, I would say, bordering on insane. That's two episodes of Joe Rogan, bro. Yeah, that's true. I mean, but I guess what was even popping at that time? Like, Bill Burr? I think Bill had just started. I mean, like, it was like Mike and Tom Eat Snacks, that show where Michael, Ian Black, and Tom... Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. ...eat snacks, which was like... really i guess groundbreaking for all the food related podcasts that happened afterwards um what were the big shows then um that was like when adam carolla was was kind of blowing up yeah i mean adam curl i mean like wtf was like considered the big show at the time but there was like like jordan and jesse go and like there was like this show where it's like one of the I can't remember if he was John Larricut's son or his name was also John Larricut. Oh, yeah, that was – no, that's a huge podcast still. It's like My Brother and Me or something like that. No, that's another one. That's the McElroy brothers or whatever. But that was also around. That was like that era. But it was these shows. It was like – I feel like it was pre when everyone –

the first time where people started saying everyone had a podcast it was like right before that happened so it's like right before like you made it weird and like chelsea pretty had a podcast or whatever yeah and all those shows still exist but it was like i was about to say all those shows still exist and they weren't making any money then were they no I mean, I remember, like, because I reviewed it, I met a lot of the people who, like, founded networks. And they were just like, I don't think this is going to work. They were just like, I think the whole podcast art is going to be, like, developing for TV shows. And we're just doing this for fun and building audiences. Like, that was it. Like, there's a lot of comedians just seeing it as a way to, like, have people show up when they're touring. Like, and... A way to grow your audience, your social media following, blah, blah, blah. So no one expected it to make money until, like... the last maybe like four years ago. I would love for this to turn straight into a TV show before we make any money, to be honest. If that's part of the deal, sign me up. Yeah, Jesse, is your connection a little weird? I feel like the reason your squad cast is dropping out is your Wi-Fi at home might not be so hot. I mean... I don't know. I can't speak to how good it is or isn't. I feel like I'm pretty close to it. I'm sitting near the... Your podcast is through Vulture, correct? Through Vulture. So then your business model for income for that is just they give you money for that? You're not handling the business side of things or is it fully your baby type of thing? No, it's part, I mean, I, I, the finance for me on my end is like, I am an employee of Vulture. So they paid me my salary to work there and included in that is the podcast. I mean, when it first started and we're doing like 15 episodes a year or whatever, it was, we found a way to get the first season underwritten by the TV show crashing. Damn, your boy Pete dipping into his pocket, the deep HBO pockets. Literally, there was no idea. One of our people on the business side was like, what's something that we would need all the money up front to do? I could do a podcast. That's all they brought to HBO. Judd and Pete, I guess, had the ability to say yes or no to things. They said yes to me having a podcast without any premise. Then I came up with a show idea. That was the first season.

I was able to convince them to let me do a second season. Then we joined HeadGum for a while. What's that? Network? Yeah, HeadGum's a comedy network. Failing HeadGum. Terrible name. Jesus Christ. What's on this network? Should I know about this? Nicole Byers' podcast is on it. Doughboys is on it. It's a poor man's earwolf, one could say. They all have similar names, so they all seem like poor names. Poor man. Head gum forever dog. All are like similar sounding names. Like maximum fun is another one. Like they all are like two name, two, two words, multiple syllable, one syllable names. I don't know why that spells comedy, but apparently that's for like the, the wing of comedy that intersects with like comic con type of people, you know, like there's a little nerdy collectible. virgin bro energy attached to those types of shows yeah opposed to the shows that are on all things comedy which is like the bill burr yeah that's that's the i'm a little set in my ways i'm not racist but i'm not not kind of bros yeah exactly but not afraid to let a few fly is bill burr raking in money and it still sounds like shit fuck yeah he's raking in money And yeah, it's so cool that it sounds so bad. Because when I was really into taking painkillers, I listened to a lot of Bilber. Because it was just like something you could just not pay attention to. And it confused me that I liked it. Like I'm not supposed to like that. I don't like sports. I don't like Boston. I don't like anything that he likes. But for some reason, it's good. You like ranting. That's true. I do like ranting, but I have nothing in common with him, and it's very powerful. Have you consumed his comedy other than the podcast? I watched a couple of the specials, but you know how I feel about specials. Yes, I know. We've got over this. Well, I think Bill is a really talented comedian that talks about stuff that we're just not that interested in. Yeah, I would agree with that. And he's probably a real cool guy to hang out with. When I met him, because I had him on the podcast.

And his non-stage persona is so gentle. I mean, you see it all the time, but he's just sort of like, you hear people talk about him and he's a really sort of, he has a sweet presence, but he just sort of turns it on. I mean, like he's in this new, the new Judd Apatow movie and he's like really, really good in it because he gets to just like be, be both the angry guy, but also sort of this like gentle guy who's trying to do his best. What movie is this? It's called Staten Island Summer. Oh God. Oh yeah. I'm out. Is this the one that Machine Gun Kelly's in? No. Well, yes and no. So Machine Gun Kelly and Pete did a full-on movie together. My friend directed that. Jason Orley directed that. A friend's brother directed the other one, I think. Yeah. So that's the movie there and together. Machine Gun Kelly has a cameo in this movie, I believe. I don't totally know who Machine Gun Kelly is, but there's a guy who... I could listen to you talk about Machine Gun Kelly for hours. Him and Pete Davidson are the same person, basically. So they just chose different professions. Yeah, so he is in the movie a little bit, but mostly it's a Pete Davidson tour de force. Tour de force. So you're saying this movie does, in fact, rock? I love this movie. I was trying to think of how I would put it. I thought it was really, really good. I am, like, sympathetic to Judd Apatow movies, maybe more so than most, but I was like, this movie is great. Is it better than This is 40? I liked it more than This is 40, yeah. Damn, that sends me reeling. Is that available for viewing now? Is it now streaming? No, you know he's flexing on us, Jason. Come on. Oh, damn. We got the vulture cut? Send me the link, bro. He got the watermarked screener. You know what I'm saying? Screeners don't exist anymore. Screeners got Corona all over them. It has my name on it. I got to watch a version of the cut where it says my name over the cut. That's the best. That's the biggest flex. I've had that happen to me in my life, and it made me feel very good about myself. Welcome to the big leagues, baby. So you're saying this movie is good? I liked it a lot. It's more of a drama, like on purpose. So I got a screener because I interviewed Judd, and as he described it, it's like if his movies are like comedy with amount of drama, this movie is a drama with amount of comedy. And I was like, I think this works. I know it seems like people, if they are prone to not liking Pete Davidson, are like, I don't like him.

pete davidson still but if you're like if you're pete davidson curious i think you're like yeah you can fuck with this movie the thing is about pete davidson i feel like he actually is talented but snl is not the thing for him no but he that's like was always the thing with him on snl where you're like why is this guy in this show and then you're just like watching it i don't i feel like they had a quota to fill or something like they needed a messy looking white guy from satin island like i don't know why it doesn't really make sense but I don't know. I mean, I just think I, I, I just find him, but I guess now he's doing movie. I mean, this is his second movie in the year. So we'll see how he fares. He has star quality. He's the weirdest looking guy to have it. Like, but some, for whatever reason, like I remember so like, so distinctly he's his first episode. They introduced him on weekend update. No one knows he is. He's a complete unfamous nobody. And everyone cheers. Like he's like, Bill Hader coming back for the show. He was instantly considered a star, and who knows what that is. I think he has the energy of someone you really want to help. He has please help me energy, and I think the nation as a whole, we are all going for this. That's true. That also explains his success with famous women, I think. Yeah, he's had sex with so many hot women, and that is hard to hear. I believe the publication you work for actually coined Big Dick Energy. Yeah, he is the epitome of Big Dick Energy. No, it is literally based on him. The whole thing is based on him. Oh, yeah, that's right. Because it's a curiosity that this guy can keep on doing it. This guy of all guys. Of all guys. Him having a big dick is the only... reason that makes sense why he's able to do all of this stuff the you know the way he looks and dresses and the friends he keeps and the interest that he has he should not be this successful in life or with getting girls to have sex with you definitely not but i mean did he do like did he do comedy shit though did he come i'm just laughing at the idea that he thought they like literally just found him on the street

Well, no, I just... It's as believable as anything. He doesn't seem like a fucking, like, dorky, like, improv guy. You know what I mean? But he also doesn't strike me as a guy who's just gonna get some mics, you know, do some open mics tonight. So, like, I don't know where he would come from. So he started doing stand-up at, like, 15 years old. Oh, so he's a head. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So he... His mom, like, would take him to, like... perform spots at like as a teenager so he was like because he got cast on snl like 19 years old like he the thing about him always was like i remember before i got cast comedians would talk about him that they're like for some reason this young person has the sort of perspective of a person much older than him like usually you know it's like a thing where i remember people described me lena dunham the same way which is like she's able to just talk about the time she's living in opposed to like being a 30 year old talking about her twenties. She was in her twenties and be able to write about being in her twenties. And Pete was like, be able to talk with a sort of like world weariness of like a full grownup when he was 17 years old. Like he had like strong opinions for when most teenagers like couldn't give one shit about anything. And it's like, it happens every once in a while. Like Dave Chappelle started standup when he was like 15. Eddie Murphy started when he was like 16, Sarah Silverman, like, For some reason, there's these like these, I guess, wunderkinds or whatever. But yeah, so he was always known as like the young guy who talks like he's also like his voice sounds like he's like a 90 year old Jewish. Yes, that's also true. I think that helps that that whole persona. I mean, I guess that makes sense. I mean, kids start bands that age, too, but they don't have to be so, you know, well-spoken because it's a different medium. But I guess that age is when you start to discover whatever you're going to be into. Yeah. well why aren't you why aren't you why aren't you a comedian bro that's my question um i think maybe he's just really bad at comedy i don't know yes well i'm not i you know i you had to have tried it once right i tried it once but not like

You know, because there was a while when I first started writing about comedy that people were like, you have to do it or you have no ability. Oh, yes, of course. We call those people the haters. Yes, the haters. And then I, you know, I've written stuff that are comedic and I had a friend would just be like, oh, we'll just try it once. I was going to do this open mic or whatever. So I did it one time and I didn't like it. I didn't hate it. I was just sort of like, this isn't a thing I need to do. I am of the belief that to be good at standup, you have to need to do it. Otherwise it's too crazy to do it. Like the idea to be good at standup, you have to do it like five times a week, multiple times a night for like five years before you're okay at it. You have to like need it. You have to have a need for approval that demands. immediate response where i have a need for approval that does not need immediate response it could be delayed or whatever through the internet so what so your favorite or like your the type of validation that you get from from writing was was suffice for yeah yeah and i that that was like i if it filled me it fulfilled me enough and also i'm better at it like i've been thinking about it like i've tried to write other stuff like scripts and and things i've written like a couple plays and Like actually during the quarantine, I realized like I am clearly better at the things that society has been rewarding me for doing. Like I have a career as a writer, I have a career as like a writer of criticism or whatever, or hosting this podcast. I think I could accept to just like that if that's enough, like if I feel like that that's fulfilling enough, I don't feel the need to be like chasing these sort of other things. I don't need to prove to myself that I'm funny enough. You might as well just double down on what's been working already. Yeah, and I also think I am of the first generation of people who like comedy who don't feel like they need to become comedians. Before me, the word comedy nerd never existed because basically anyone who was a comedy nerd became a comedian. And it feels like...

like my like millennials were the first time where people like were allowed to be comedy fans and that was their relationship to it and so i'm trying to speak for those people the of course yes somebody needs to be the voice yes i'm the voice of this very specific portion of my generation for this underrepresented minority yes um are you are you a big laugher yes that's i i i still laugh especially at live stuff i'll laugh all the time like i I always get nervous. I go to live shows if I sit in front so that someone will call, you know, like bad comedians will be like, what do you do for a living? What do you do for a living? And I'll be like, oh, I'm a comedy critic. But for the most part, I'm able to go to shows and get lost in it. And just like, I laugh loud. I laugh proud. I feel like I laugh more so now that I appreciate it. I feel like I can laugh at more parts of comedy. I've noticed that. Well, I was asking because I've noticed there's not a ton of laughing on the podcast. Is that intentional or not intentional? It's funny. Someone literally just criticized me over DM for laughing too much. Really? Yeah. I think I laugh more now because over Squadcast and the like, I feel like I need to communicate to the comedians that are doing a good job, where I used to be able to nod and smile more. Have you ever been one of those people that just says, that's funny? that's the worst yes i feel so bad when i do it because you don't realize you're doing it you're like that's really funny and you say it and you're like oh no you've become like the parody of one of these people if you say it to somebody else who also says it then it's fine they understand yeah that's true takes one to know one for sure i remember to name drop a story i was um i one of the things i do on the side is i produced these charity comedy shows with Padma from Top Chef. Okay, we'll get into that after this little story. I'm a Pad fan. That wasn't even the name I was dropping. That's the second part of it. Chris Rock came by to the first one we did. Partly just to watch, I guess. He was watching Michelle Wolf's set.

Like he was, he's like in the backstage and he was sort of like listening and watching to himself, but then would talk to the room and he would constantly be like, that's funny. That's like, it wasn't sort of laughing, but he was like to all of us. And I'd be like, yeah, Chris Rock. She's really good. Yeah. Chris Rock. She's really funny. You're right. Yeah. It's like, yeah, I agree. Me and you, we, we were both on the same level of this conversation about this is good comedy. Um, so I, maybe he was just on Coke. That's very possible. Yeah. I, I'm not going to. I can't. Let's not rule it out. I don't want to rule it out. How do you know Padma? So two years ago, Padma got into comedy in a big way. I don't know how it happened. She became comedy. I know how. Pete Davidson smash. Definitely, definitely possible. It was just sort of like, it seemed like in one week she followed all of like Brooklyn comedy and including me. And I thought that was, it's weird to follow me because I don't think I have, I don't expect anyone to like anything I tweet or be interested in it unless they're into comedy. So she, I, it was me, but she also followed like a lot of up and coming comedians. And just one day I DMed her with no knowledge of her and no interaction with her. And I was like, would you want to put on a comedy show together? It'll be for charity. I'll do all the work. You'll just have to show up and have your name be on it. And she was like, yeah, let's get on the phone. And that was it. Damn. And then it's basically like I made her an offer that was like too good. Like she couldn't refuse because it's like she gets to. be part of a comedy show. Like we raised a ton of money. It was super fun. Like it was right after the Louis CK stuff. And she was like really anti Louis CK for obvious reasons. So she was just like, fuck that guy. There are all these more interesting comedians going on. So I was like, let's do a show where you get to pick the comedians you like. And that's like, that was the premise. And the first time we raised like.

I think $20,000 for the new voter project, which is like a group that gives money to local organizations to do grassroots getting out the vote opposed to like big get out the vote operations. And then we, I can't remember the name of the organization. Next time we raised maybe like $35,000 for like abortion charities. And they rule. We want to do another one, but obviously there's no comedy anymore. But it's crazy. I don't know her. She's just like, yeah, all right, let's do the show. Has she ever cooked for you or no? No, we're not there yet. I was thinking if we do maybe two more. When you showed up to the comedy club, did it kind of feel a little bit like a date? Did you bring flowers or anything? Or what was the energy like between the two of you? It was... You know, it was like we're old friends. I mean, it was sort of like we immediately acted like this was normal. And maybe that's kind of what it's like to be a person like Padma. Like, I don't know that many people who are famous, but I imagine they take for granted that things just happen around them. I agree with that 100%. Yes. And like, because if you host a TV show, like... All of these things, like the sort of details that make things happen, you can't focus on because that would be like not your purview. So I imagine she's like, yeah, this is normal. I'm doing this. Yeah, I just show up. This is ready to go. I do my thing and we leave. Yeah. So it's like makes complete sense. And like she's had so much fun doing like the shows are super long and she stays and watches. And like the thing that I really, really appreciated is she spent. time with the talent like she really was like present and like said hello and talked about how much they liked like their comedy and like that to me was like above and beyond so we love a pro we stand a pro it sounds like she's trying to chrissy tegan a little bit yeah she's finding a little chummy chummy with with uh with the comedy but that's the beauty of being a celebrity you can do that you can just dip in and dip out of whatever

like fame adjacent things you would like to, and no one's going to stop you because they're, I mean, you know, like everybody's a fan of hers too. I'm sure it goes both ways for the most part. Yeah. I mean, it was like, there was a, do you remember when Kanye got really into alt comedy? You mean when he was buddies with Aziz? Yeah. When he was buddies with Aziz, he would go to Largo every night. He was like, God, Zach Alfinakis would. Oh yeah. And he took improv classes. Like that part. Jesus Christ. He took Matt, Matt Besser of the UCB theater. taught him one-on-one improv classes for like a really long time. This is my nightmare. Kanye West taking improv classes is actually my nightmare. I didn't know anything could get that. That probably helped him with his preaching, though. That's true. I mean, that's true. It is pivoting to religion makes more sense, I think. It is a gateway in many ways. In so much that improv's cult status, it is like... That need to believe in something bigger than yourself. Didn't all that shit shut down? Didn't UCB shut? Is it over? It's not over. The New York spaces don't exist anymore. They said they'll reopen them. Who knows? There was one on my block for a long time, I think, on Avenue A. Oh, the one by the pizza place. Yeah, yeah. Maybe Kanye could bail them out. Yeah, he should bail them out. I know. They have all these famous friends. They should be like, Kanye, this is your chance of... That's my favorite thing when famous people are tweeting a GoFundMe for like three grand. It's like, dude, just either don't tweet it or give them the money yourself. There's no like... This has been a great time for people fucking up though, this whole quarantine. So I guess it's provided entertainment. So I have to like that. I imagine it's... These celebrities have... I mean, they're performers and they have such a need to for interaction with the public that they cannot feed. So they're just like tweeting, which is like not their forte. And the more you put yourself on the Internet, the greater risk you have from messing it up. And you're just like every time it's like you'd hope that being famous means you could inoculate yourself from having to generate content. And yet these like Jessica Chastain's like making videos like you're like.

very talented. You're literally, yeah, you're literally like an Oscar winner. You don't need to be doing, you don't need to dip tower level. Like you're better than this. I agree. But I mean, people have nothing to do. I mean, look, I don't, you know, what's fucked up in the game is we've got all these people out here that can't get a TV show that are actually talented. And we got John Krasinski getting a fat ass check from CBS for a show. He's not even going to host. He sold his show that he hosts, but he is not going to host it when it becomes a network television show. Yeah, man. That's the power of being on The Office. Now, don't get me wrong. The Office, we have a big debate on this podcast because I fuck with The Office. I love The Office. And Jason is like, you're an idiot. That's not true. I think The Office is fine. And that's it. I was of the age, I mean, I imagine we're probably all around the same age, where I started writing on the internet where the main opinion was how bad The Office became. I remember this, yes. It was like when Park started. Everyone would not stop talking about how bad The Office Now was, and that's the only thing that people remembered. And then here it comes back, and everyone asks, like, nonstop hits. When it's like, after Steve Carell left, we all agreed, I thought, that it was, like, unwatchable. And good for them, I guess. I mean, good for John Krasinski, who now gets to be, like, a superstar. But isn't Krasinski, isn't he a little bit of a fucking... red guy? Isn't he a little bit Republican? Or is he just like a sympathizer? I think you kind of want him to be a little red. Because he did the... If you rock with Clint Eastwood, you're a little bit right wing. That's my take on it. I think he's a big support the troops guy. He's just on the fringes, I feel like. It was... Was Emily Blunt... Who was the person who was in the most... the whatever-his-name movie, the Atlanta bombing movie, the Olympics. That movie was bad. As a person who lived through that bombing as an Atlanta resident, that movie did not do it justice to the story. Was Emily Blunt in that movie, though? No, I don't think so. Oh, it was Olivia Wilde. Yeah, but that was an Eastwood vehicle. Yes, so that's where I mixed it up. Because remember, there's Olivia Wilde.

was getting into trouble for being in a movie that was like anti-journalism because her family is famously like members of the press. Oh, Spotlight. Yes. So anyway, so is John Krasinski Republican? Probably not. But I think he's probably like more so than you are. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. I feel like, but I think a lot of there's, there's a known cabal of undercover Hollywood Republicans that can't talk about it, you know? And I think that. you know, this divisive political time we're living in could push them out of the closet. I just don't like that my girlfriend finds Krasinski to be hot. It's kind of troubling for me. Damn. He is, I mean, he's literally like basic as fuck, but he's generally good looking. Who's the female version of Krasinski, you think? Olivia Wilde. Yeah, checks out. But also he got really big, right? To do that Amazon show, he got huge. You know, the only time I listened to, we've talked about this too, the Dax Shepard podcast was when comedian Kumail was on talking about getting shredded. And it was an incredible podcast. I highly recommend it. I couldn't get through it. Do they talk about, did he talk about waxing? No. That's the thing. That's Hollywood's dirty little secret. What a twist. I just sort of like can't get over. that he has his forearms are clearly hairy as hell. He has a super hairy chest and then it completely like a line stops right at his abs. You're like, that is impossible. Look, I mean, I would do the same thing if I were in a position. If the studio had a trainer for me and I was living like that, I would do whatever they told me to do. Yeah, but I think what he's saying is once you wax one part of your body, you kind of have to wax the whole thing to even it out or else it just looks wrong. Yeah, I mean, I would have Warner Brothers get the laser hair removal on the line and do the whole, I'm doing my whole body. I think it's time to have hairy chest representation in American cinema more often. I agree with that. I'm glad that you're willing to stand for something, Jason. I, Seth Rogen in, I think starting in the Neighbors movies, like regrew his back hair. And I was like, this is, this is, this is.

I would say bold is a good way to put that. You know he's got some nasty-ass back hair, too. But if you see him and knocked up, nothing. And you're like, oh, he clearly was not allowed to do it, but now he has enough clout in Hollywood that he's allowed to be his true self. Like Ben Affleck showing his full dragon backpiece tattoo. What are you going to do, take my millions away? Did you see that Affleck fucking just ferment his beard during quarantine? Really? Dude, his beard is fully, like, black now. Because he gets paparazzi'd every single day with this new girlfriend who's, like, 20. And I don't know what she's in. But they get paparazzi'd every single day. Like, every single day with a dog. And his beard has clearly been just for men. Because I feel like I've seen so much press making a huge deal about the celebrities who are not doing that. Because, like, Kevin Hart's beard is gray or whatever. Kevin Hart looks like Father Time now. He really does look old as hell. Did you see his second Jumanji movie? No, no. Missed that one, bro. Missed that one. Sorry. So the first Jumanji movie he's in, this is going to relate, I promise. The first Jumanji movie he was in is fantastic. It really is a really good movie. It really works. And the second one works a little bit less. However, so the premise of the first one is they're in a video game and Kevin Hart. is, I believe, playing the avatar of a jock, and it's funny because he's short or whatever. But in the second one, the avatars get mixed up, and now he's doing the avatar of Danny Glover. So he's playing Kevin Hart as an old man, and it is very funny. What other bad movies do you like? I mean... I don't know. I think those movies are good, so I don't know what to say. I'm just kidding. I don't know what to tell you of those movies. I think I saw a preview for that Jumanji, and I think there was one character switch that seemed a little on the borderline of offensive, perhaps. It wasn't a full Tropic Thunder blackface situation, but it was a little iffy. Am I wrong? Where a white character is doing the voice. I am sure that happened.

If I know my Jumanji. I mean, Jack Black does a woman, and it is very not nice to how women talk. But I think generally, you know, the movie's in good spirit. Jack Black is over a party. Jack Black is over a party. Well, at least he's moving to voiceover work. He can age into that a little better. Yeah. Have you seen Kevin Hart live in concert? No. And I regret, I wish I have, because I, the only thing, the closest I've seen is I saw his, one of his special movies with an audience, like at a premiere. Yeah. And I was like, this is amazing. I watched, I watched his, his self-produced series on, I'm sure it was on Netflix. It'll fucking put out anything. The one where. Oh, the doc. Yes, the doc. And I was blown away at his, it's, he's so big. He's so big. And that documentary was insane. It was, like, obviously self-produced and just, like, kind of pointless. But, like, the fact that I watched half of it made me sad about myself. He is, I mean, he's probably the biggest comedian ever by total numbers. I mean, the only comedians that have sold out football stadiums are him and Larry the Cable Guy. I'm going Larry over Kevin if I have to choose. Don't make me choose, but I will. But for how big Kevin is, he could be a much worse comedian. That's fair. Because to be that big, you have to sort of be bad and be that big. What's the guy, the Indian comedian, Dwayne, who does stadiums? Russell Peters? Russell Peters, yeah. He's an awful comedian, and he's so big. I mean, because part of it is a lot of people don't like good comedy because, you know, like they just want the bad. They want a professional person to do the type of jokes they would make to their friends, which like tend to be like kind of racial. Like, like maybe they're racist, but they're just mostly just like about stereotypes. And like Russell Peters, like what's or is the king of it? I mean, like that's like always like sort of who his fan base is. I mean, but, you know, so like.

Kevin is, you know, I interviewed Kevin Hart and it was on the set of Jumanji 2, which is not why I brought up how good the movie was. He invited me into his trailer. The movie was outstanding. It was such a funny NDA to have to sign because I had to basically say, like, we took a photo, but we couldn't include his pants because his pants were in the movie. And I'm like, who is this imagined? Jumanji. Yeah, that cares that much. But I loved it. Leaked pants photo on Reddit appears. But in that interview, I was like, he's working hard in this interview. He gets that part of the job of being a famous person is to be interesting in interviews. So he tries really hard. It's intense. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Because the alternative is a person who's famous and is like, I don't give a shit. I don't need this. But like he, he, the thing that he doesn't, he talks about a little bit in the documentary. It's a bit like the Taylor Swift documentary, but he also talks about his book, which is sort of like, you know, they don't let people like me be famous that long. Like he's well aware that like society allows like black famous people, like maybe a few years. So he's just, he's, his goal is to like create a company that will out, outlast his movie career. So he's just grinding. Are you talking about the red cup boys or what are they called? The solo cup boys? Yeah, something like that. He's making hay while the sun is shining. Yes. Who has that joke? Is it Chappelle that says, I remember back in the day when there could only be one famous black comedian at a time and now we're living in a... And now look at us. We can have three? I mean... While we have you here, I would like to run down a list of other comedians that I have bones to pick with and get some inside scoop from you. So let's start with Chris D'Elia's hair. Sure. Because I find him to be like powerfully offensive. And then I had listened to his podcast a few times. I was like, okay, I get his appeal. But then I watched his special and I couldn't make it through it. And is that just not for me or is that not for you either? It's not for me either. But I will say that, you know.

He is a, he's, you get to a certain level of comedian and you can become a, like only your persona comedian. Like once you get a fan base who likes you, all they want to do is hang out with you. And like, and so you're doing the job. Like they're laughing because they find you funny. And the problem is outside of that bubble, if you're not working hard to try to figure out how people outside of your, your fan base likes you, then it's going to be. you're going to seem like the least funny person in the world because you are confidently being not funny. That makes a lot of sense, actually. Very insightful. Yeah, that is really insightful. You should do this for a living, Chief. I know. So to him, it's just like such a sharp contrast because thousands of people a night are like cheering these things he's saying. But if you're not those people, you're like, what is he even talking about? I mean... He also wears, like, Yeezys, which I think pushes me over the edge because I don't like when comedians try to get swaggy. Like, I feel like that goes against the entire thing. Yeah, it feels like comedians dressed poorly for a very long time and very recent, like, well, male comedians, but really all comedians dressed poorly for forever until very recently someone was like, you guys should try to dress better. And then... None of them have taste for it. Yeah, no, they might be trying, but they are not succeeding. A lot of similarities from my career trajectory of the world of DJing is the same sort of thing. They shouldn't have let these people figure out that there are designer clothes out there and Lamborghinis and stuff that they could buy because they just can't handle it. I'm just happy comedians now wear jeans that fit. Sure, we have to start small. I understand. So that's nice. Is that a Sinbad dig? No, I mean, Sinbad. I think if anything, Sinbad was like...

one of the few comedians who genuinely understood fashion in so much as like he knew what he was doing. Like it was bold and attention grabbing, but it wasn't like on accident where it feels like so many comedians are like, I guess this is what boys wear. So time to film myself. He really be dressing is what you're saying. Exactly. Okay. My, my second bone to pick or not bone to pick. I'm just looking for some insight from the community, from the community is, is Tosh. because he had a hair transplant and no one seemed to talk about it. And that is insane. I have not noticed. I feel like the people that know or care about hair transplants, like the Venn diagram of those people and the Toshman Venn diagram apparently is only you. No, no, no. But I'm saying it's like a thing. Like if you go... Like basically he was about to get famous and then he was like, all right, let me get a hair transplant. Oh, like before, I mean, but that, I mean, the truth is, I mean, he should talk about it. Cause I think it's interesting. I mean like, cause like Joel McHale will talk about it. Cause Joel McHale will talk about getting plugs. He's, he's also swole. Yes. But his thing was that every, I feel like, I don't know if it's still the case, but he say like his main way he's done it is he does a ton of pushups and he doesn't eat like anything. Sick. That's actually, that's the how long gone diet. But I think that's the trick of being swole on TV, where it's all proportionate. So you don't notice. If you saw him in person, you might just come off as skinny. Yeah, that's a good point. I forget about the cam. There's only so many people, I feel like, that celebrities that get actually big. It's like famous people. Not famous people. People are going to be Marvel movies legitimately put on size. You have to. Yeah, you have to. Did you like Community? Yeah. I feel like I saw you making fun of it, but like, I'm the type of person. I don't, I just, it's, it's beyond my, I don't understand. Like I watched it when it was out and then it got canceled and people cared about it all of a sudden, but I don't, that also makes me insane about TV in general. Like you clearly didn't watch this shit enough when it was on or it wouldn't have gotten canceled. Yeah. I mean, I, I really, I've re I've recently had.

moderated a panel reunion with them. And so I rewatched all of it. It's like three seasons. It's six seasons. So what happened was... Damn, bro. I hope they're paying you a lot over there, man. Damn. Six seasons of community. I'm looking for a hundred grand just for that. Off rip. Off rip. So what happened was that the third season, they fired the guy that created it, then replaced it with these two... That's Dan Harmon. Yeah, they fired Dan Harmon. That never goes well. Yeah, Replace was like two regular guys doing their best. And it was just like not the same show. And then it moved to Yahoo when Yahoo had a streaming service for two years. Jesus. So it moved to Yahoo for two years. But in the fifth season, which was on Yahoo, that's when Donald Glover left. And then he became like the most famous person on earth. We're also an anti-Donald Glover podcast. Why? What did he do to you? Well, he released music. And I think that, I mean, he's one of those guys where people always want to argue with me. And they're always like, yeah, but Atlanta. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. Atlanta is good. But is Atlanta good enough to make up for all the other stuff? I don't know. I don't know. I think it is. I don't know. Like, if you think of his music as a side project. It's too big to be a side project. I can't allow that. He's grossing too much. Well, that's right because he played like Madison Square Garden. Yeah, he's huge. I mean, that one fake Prince song is pretty good, but it's like truly a fake Prince song. Yeah, I think he headlined Coachella one of the days last year or something, didn't he? I think it's not a side project anymore at that point. Yeah. I think I admire his ability to figure out how to make himself cool. Because he was seen as a nerd. because he was on Community, and he did improv earnestly. He was very good at improv. He was, like, known for being good and committed to doing improv. And he did these raps, and they were, like, the raps nerds do. And people made fun of it for being nerd rap. And then somewhere along the way, I think it's like he did Atlanta and proved himself to be, like, a genuine artist. So it made his music retroactively seem like it was serious. And then somehow it all culminated into being, like...

he can do whatever he wants. So he's a fucking scammer, just like I thought. Okay, well, that makes sense. Either that, I mean, the hair and the beard really kind of transformed or scammed us, the public, into thinking that he is cool, I suppose. The other thing was, there was, I don't know if it was, I think it was the Emmys. He wore a brown... tuxedo or brown quarter yes i believe it was a brown gucci tuxedo and it was truly the first time seemingly that a straight man tried at an award show and truly from that moment on all straight men started trying like it's you know this was an incredible look i have to say it was it was it was velvet and shawl collar which is which is exceptionally cool um Dan, this was good. Is it Gucci? And Corey wrote an article about it for the style section of the Times or something. And then I remember immediately after the next award show, you started seeing the Chris Evanses of the world wearing colorful tuxedos. Oh, God damn it. The Hollywood Chrises, my arch nemeses. What do you think about comedian Cat Williams? Well, I know Chris is a big fan. He's our favorite. Well, Jason put me on. He's the number one comedian of this podcast. I think he's great. He's singular. There's only one Cat Williams. I'll say this. When I was in Atlanta, so I was in Atlanta to interview Kevin Hart on the set of Jumanji. Oh, we know. We know. We've heard. We've heard. So every Uber was very nice. Every Uber driver was very nice. And they're like, what are you in town for? And I was like, oh, I'm interviewing Kevin Hart. And they're like, that's so cool, blah, blah, blah. And I'd say of the five Uber drivers I got, four immediately after saying it was cool that I was interviewing Kevin Hart were like, you've got to get Cat Williams on your show. See, and that's why Atlanta is my hometown. Because we understand, you know, and you recommended to me that Dion Cole special, which I'd actually already watched. And that shit is funny as hell. Yeah, that was really good.

Netflix thing I've seen in a long time I really enjoyed that he was really really funny yeah he's so funny and it's like he has he's able to do sort of both of like it how do I put it it's like there is like obviously like the southern black comedy scene and just sort of the black comedy scene which is sort of separate and from whatever we would just consider the mainstream comedy scene but like people allow to do all of it and I think Dion is the perfect mix of like coming from like the Chicago black comedy seed in that style. That's like Lil Rel and Bernie Mac and this guy, Robin Harris, who's like one of my favorite comedians. And then also like he worked at Conan. So he's like, has this like weird, goofy, silly side to him. Damn. I didn't know that. That does make more sense though. Cause you're right. He does. He does seem to be like a, a crossover hit. Yes. So I, I, I, so as a result, it just makes them an interesting thing to watch. Like you're like, Oh, there's not a lot of comedians who've done both these things. So as a result, his sort of voice is just sort of different. Um, and he's, I mean, he's so funny. I have some other questions for you. Cause it's, I, you know, I mean, bro, it seems like you're just submerged in this comedy shit. So literally, you know, that is my thing. I'm not, you know, so like, if I feel like watching some comedy, I flip, I put on the office and I'm good to go, but you know. If you're trying to unwind, what are you doing? How do you separate yourself from the work? Are you into music? Do you listen to like Pavement and cool shit like we do? Or are you into more like Donald Glover? You'd be CrossFit. Are you in CrossFit? I'm not in CrossFit. I feel like I listen to what is, at this moment, the least cool music to listen to, which is like indie rock of the late aughts. because you're you're banging you're banging mgmt in the whip is what you're telling me so well not in like the national or tv on the radio or like oh yeah that's cool you're white so are we bro we get it like it's fine i because it's like i truly you don't see it coming but you become you you you just at a certain point you're like i'm just gonna listen to the music i listened to the last time i was with it and it's like i lived in williamsburg after i graduated from college this was the music i listened to i felt cool and now it's only the music i still listen to

And we should have Jason send you a mix. So you gave up. Yeah. I, I, I, I try a little bit, but not as much. I mean, like I, what I try not to keep up to is like, there's so many rappers and I'm like, I'm not going to learn who all these people are because it's just sort of like, it's too many. I don't have time for it. Like I'll still listen to things that are like the things that I listen to. I don't think anyone's expecting you to listen to rap. Don't worry. That's true. I was like, I'll like DaBaby and that will be the rapper I listen to. Because he was on SNL and he was so weird and funny. And I was like, this guy, I hope he's good. And then I read articles and people were like, he's good at rapping. I was like, thank God I picked a good one. He is unfortunately, he is good at rapping, but he's a little bit of a one trick pony. So if you dive deep into his catalog, which is like two records at this point, you might be disappointed, but otherwise you're good. Yeah. So it's him and Haim. I've decided those are going to be the two people I like stand publicly. Wow. Haim, big twist for a white man. But we also, we've talked about Haim on this podcast because I also like them, but I can't figure out like, I feel like they're so popular, but they haven't had a hit in a very long time. It feels like a lot of their popularity was, like, they were an indie rock band who was friends with Taylor Swift, but, like, it never felt like they did anything themselves to make them pop famous, other than they were, like, part of that world. No, they just sounded like Wilson Phillips, and it, like, worked. Yeah, that's true. And, I mean, I think the whole thing is very appealing, the package. That and the Paul Thomas Anderson stuff. Yeah. I watched, you know, I watched a Paul Thomas Anderson movie last night that I'd never seen before, Hard Eight. Oh, the, like, the original stuff? The pre-Boogie Nights, yeah. I'm not really a cinephile, but my girlfriend and I watched it last night, and we both really enjoyed it. Is it good? It had Gwyneth Paltrow in it, and it's a prostitute, to be fair, so that's really up my street. But it is good. I think it's considered to be really good, because it's also the precursor to Boogie Nights. I've got to watch it. Have you ever seen Gwyneth Paltrow in person? Actually, yes, I have. It's a great question. Yes, I have. I went to the Goop.

conference two years ago and wrote about it. And I did, I saw her present, but I will see her, you know, once this core lifts, I'm expecting the invite for lunch out in Brentwood pretty soon. Yeah. She is, I saw her once outside of, um, what's that place called? The Lincoln, not Lincoln center, the place by Lincoln center, uh, Columbus circle. And she was one of the three most luminescent people I've ever seen in my entire life. Let's hear the list, Jesse. What do we got? Oh, it's her. Kate Beckinsale. Yeah. And who I saw... Known comedian diddler, Kate Beckinsale. And number one of the bullets was Taye Diggs. Taye Diggs! Taye Diggs looking moisturized. Taye Diggs. Taye Diggs should have been the one in Jumanji, if you ask me. He didn't look like he was a... He was, like, floating through the world. I used to work at William Morris, and this was in L.A., and he just walked, and he smiled at a group of us assistants, and we were, like, dead. I didn't know that. Clean up on aisle me. I didn't know Taye Diggs. Isn't Taye Diggs, like, 5'3", though? We're sitting down. It's hard to say. I would assume he was short. We know you William Morris assistants aren't allowed to leave that desk, goddammit. So I hope you were sitting down. I hope you had your fucking earpiece on because these calls aren't going to roll themselves. Exactly. I can't imagine he's tall. If he's tall, it'd be unfair. That's true. That's what we say about Jason because he's 6'9". It's bullshit. Yeah, I'm the white-tailed digs because of my height. Who did you work with at William Morris? Whose assistant were you? Was it in comedy or was it in music? It was in music. Because coming out of college, I wanted to work in the music business. That was my one goal. And I was terrible at it. So I started in the mailroom here in New York. And then they shipped me to Beverly Hills. And my first day was the day the merger went through. So like 100 agents were fired. Did you know a guy named Ron Opaleski? Yes. That's my shooter. When I was in the music business, he was our agent.

He's great. Yeah. Yeah. I just remember his name. I don't know if I meant because I was like an assistant for a short time in music, but I was really bad at it. I was so bad at everything needed to do that job. And I was eventually let go. And the boss, the person who hired me, I know the person who asked me to move to L.A. was like, you're too sensitive to work here and you're too much of an intellectual to live in Los Angeles. Wow, that's the coolest backhanded compliment I've ever heard. He's basically like – He just called you a pussy. Yeah. He's like, hey, we got to fire you. You're a pussy. Sorry, dude. I mean you kind of have to be like – you have to have a dash of I'm a monster to work in one of those places and find true success, you know? Yeah, I think – it's like Michael Jordan. It's like to be aware there, you have to be an asshole a little bit. I didn't have the confidence to do it. I would wish I could. I just sort of couldn't pull it off. Couldn't pull it off. I don't want you to do that. You're too genuine of heart for that. Yes. But I found my home. Thank God. Yeah. But yeah, it was three years of like – they should have let me go earlier. I was always bad at it. I was bad at delivering the mail part. You spilled. You got the coffee orders mixed up constantly. Yeah. There's just like a lot of stuff that would be easy for a person with like a normal attention span that I would just sort of like lose track of and do slowly. Like there were just, I would be given these boring tasks that were like, no one thought about how long they would take. So I was like, I could probably spend two months on it. And like I did two months on it. Then a person took over for me and did everything in a week and was like, how did you spend two months doing this? I was like, it's because I did other stuff. I was doing other stuff. Yeah. But I credited partly how I was able to get a job at Vulture because all I did was read – this was when Vulture first started. So all I did was read Vulture obsessively. Well, we love Vulture on this podcast. As a New York magazine, I get a check from those guys too.

contractually have to like shout out to crooked vox media for support yeah yeah crooked vox media but i do vulture is probably my most read vertical oh thank you so much you know uh and i you know unfortunately i flirted with vulture when i was supposed to interview moby after his second book and then he canceled himself so i'm very upset i'm very upset that i didn't get to meet moby i'm sorry well hopefully he'll come back he's back baby he's back jason saw him at a hardcore show in orange county he's back Yeah, that's how you know someone's back. If you weren't on Vulture and your podcast was an independent venture of yours, would you go Patreon? I don't know. I have no sense of how loyal my fans are. I sort of can't internalize the idea that they exist. They're holding on by a thread, Jesse. You know that, right? What? Your fans. They're all like any minute now. Once I have an unfamous person on, they're like, we're done. I feel like I think Patreons for people, like in my head, Patreons are for podcasts where it's host driven. Like I want to hang out with the host. I listen to it because of the host talking. And my podcast is very much about the guest. So it feels like not like Patreon isn't the best venue for it, where it's like the best venue is for. the people who you know like and there are like the audience that is consistent that i have but also you know i get a large portion of like the fans of that person coming to listen to it so like yeah so patreon probably not not the best model but you can then get on the horn and say like hey lexus we got seinfeld on this week do you want to give us a bag Yeah, exactly. That's what I do. I go, he likes cars, you're a car. You're a car. Come on, let's do this deal. That makes sense, though. We don't like Patreon either. We call it digital panhandling. But I do think you're 100% right about who it appeals to. If it's a cult of personality host, then it absolutely is. If you want to fuck the host and you're a simp for them, then Patreon is perfect for you. Exactly.

That's why I, the one I subscribe to is the podcast of the people I most want to fuck. Damn. On that note, Jesse, thanks for joining us. That was excellent. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I feel like I learned a lot and I now have a go-to member of the comedy community when I need to have my questions answered. Sure. If you ever want a recommendation, I'm happy to provide. I generally just ask. people to tell me other things they already like but i you know you you had an article where you you did like if you like this then this comedian would be for you so you can kind of do like a a prescribed comedian maybe you could do one for chris on the fly based on what we've been talking to for the last hour well i already recommend him dion colt so i don't know i'm trying to think i would he likes the office i'll give you a hint he can't be white yeah he can't be white and he can't be a she also That's not true. I'm trying to think of which black comedians are most like The Office. This is the information I have. Except for the literal one black comedian who is on The Office. Have you ever seen Craig Robinson's stand-up? It's so good. I don't know if he still does it. He does the piano shit, right? I like him a lot. His clip on Def Jam, I don't know if he's done it more than once, but it goes on and off on the internet. But he was on Def Jam, and it was so interesting because the host was like, hey, this guy's a bit different, so you're going to really have to listen to him. The audience is sort of skeptical, and he's sort of doing his deadpan shit. And the audience laughs. You can see them trying to figure out how to laugh in the way they do to this. It's so fascinating. He's so good. Like the Black Galifianakis live at the Big Potato or whatever. Yeah. I'm going to check that out. I'll find that on YouTube. Find that clip. I once wrote an article about it, but I think the clip that I found was lost. I mean, otherwise it's like, you know, like Hannibal Buress is probably the most like deadpan, not white comedian. I've explored his catalog before, but I need something new and underground. So let me know when you find some up and coming. I'm more of a, I like to support new talent.

Have you watched the Lucas brothers? Are those who got twins? Yeah. I feel like I have seen that. Their next, whatever they do the next thing next will be like, I mean, they're the headiest freaking guys on earth, but they, they, whatever their next thing will be like. Really, really interesting. Smart money is on the Lucas Brothers. I heard it from an insider. Tell them where to find you online and how to listen to the pod. Sure. It's at Jesse David Fox on all social and then good one podcast wherever you stream podcasts. We have famous comedians on. They play a clip of a joke or a scene and we talk about how they wrote it and why they wrote it. Great. Great. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Stay safe up there. Wear a mask and we'll talk to you soon. Bye. Talk to you soon. Later. Later. Bye. Bye.