356. - Kurt Vile

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Them jeans is here. How are you, Chris? What's up, bitch? You know what, man? I'm fine. worn out from my jog this morning but i'm excited to podcast with you today a tough jog i wouldn't say a tough jog but some days are better than others you know some girls are bigger than others some days are better than others when it comes to exercise i'm sure you can relate yeah oh i can definitely relate yesterday was great today not so great not is it not not as incredible well i I have a personal trainer at the gym now, so when I'm working with Anthony, it's a lot different in a good way. Yeah. And today I was just sledding around solo. It was still hot and sweaty and a great workout, but my body wasn't feeling high. Bro, this is what happens. It hits different. Hunter can send me a workout. I can follow the directions exactly as he says them, but if he's not there, I don't feel the pump in the same way. Interesting. But I didn't mean to break this bad news to you. right before the show if you saw my message i did see your message it was it hit me but it didn't hit me super hard okay i'm okay i just i i feel like anita dating murder on the beat so it's not nice it might give that might mean you have a better chance actually uh i mean we in terms of us both being white yeah exactly yeah okay so he is a little more musical and a little more financially stable than i am

Yeah, he's a little bit more financially stable. Musical, I mean, sure, but let's not discount kind of what you're good at and what your skills are. I'm saying they can bond over studio life more so than I can with Anita. And also, let's be honest, it's not really going to work out with Anita and I. Her lifestyle is a lot more fast-paced compared to mine. At least nowadays. Well, I mean, I see you going on tour, just kind of hanging out on the bus, podcasting from the lounge. You know what I mean? Hitting catering. Hitting the Argentinian barbecue. Exactly. Crafty. Yeah, yeah. And just kind of watching from the side stage, cheering Bay on, and then just kind of doing it all over again. Believe it or not, the Brazilians and I haven't tangled a ton. I don't know if our lifestyles are full of as much color. That's true. And excitement as they seem to live. I mean, it does seem like a rich culture that maybe you have something you could learn and vice versa, of course. But I understand that sometimes the differences like that can push people apart versus bring them together. But this is something we'll pray on. We'll pray on this for you. Either way, congrats to Murder Beats. Murder Beats, though. I wanted to, because I was looking at pictures of Murder Beats, which I try not to do. He does something, I believe, that I'm seeing a little more of. me back to the to the hardcore days a lot of guys beard no mustache you know shaving not a chin strap necessarily not like a manicure chin strap but just like a i don't like the way the mustache looks but i'm gonna have like a pretty full beard which is just let me go ahead and say absolutely insane it is it's insane it's like wearing shoes with no laces in them like you're technically wearing them but it ain't right yeah it's a but it's a strange i've noticed it a couple times recently And I was just like, I don't like this. And now I'm seeing it more and more. I don't know. It's much like I tweeted earlier about the Aloe high crown logo mesh hat making its way onto straight men all across this beautiful country. It's a little bit of an eyesore. I feel like if you have a chick or you have friends, they would say, hey, bro, the whole thing about having a beard is that it includes the mustache. You know, these celebrity types don't have no people in their camp.

So they're just going to say, hey, Murder Beats, he keeps buying me lunch and supplying me with apes of mid. But what I'm saying to you is Murder Beats is merely the face of a larger problem that has infiltrated regular society. For me, the beard is simply a catalyst to include the mustache itself. And I only have a beard and a mustache because... I'm afraid of what I would look like with mustache only. Mustache only is just too shtick-like. I mean, there's a very small handful of people that can pull it off, and it's great when they do. It's a successful move, but I appreciate you kind of staying away from that. Yeah, because without the mustache, my face becomes ten times more punchable. That's saying a lot. The mustache has become my identity. Any source of masculine power that can be wrung from my chamois comes from that mustache. Thank God. And also, we talked earlier a little bit about our friends over at NASCAR. They're celebrating pride. They didn't change their handle necessarily, but directly under the NASCAR handle, it says, Yaskar with a rainbow emoji, hashtag Pride Month. Yeah, they tweeted the word Yaskar in order to promote their Pride merch launch that is already on clearance sale. Which is pretty halfway through Pride Month. Jason saw it at TJ Maxx yesterday when he was looking for napkin rings. It's crazy. But I don't know. I don't know. You said, I assumed NASCAR would think Twitter is too gay to be on. Yeah, just the act of creating a Twitter account and setting up a Twitter page, you would assume that NASCAR home office would say that alone is too gay for us, let alone to even know what the word yas means and how to use that.

This ain't your grandpappy's NASCAR, Jason. I just want to say, you guys keep watching your little fruity F1 shit. Real men, we're going to support the gays and watch NASCAR. That's what we're going to do. I think NASCAR still is my grandpappy's NASCAR. They had to do a diversity hire on the social media team. To breathe a little life into it or else someone's stepson was going to get mad or something over there at the home office. Because I saw another Yass tweet yesterday from Andrews who claimed that the Ryan Gosling Barbie was a Yassification of Ken. No, it was the Yassification of Place Beyond the Pines in specific. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't... I, you know, people are like, it looks bad. It looks good. I don't know. I mean, a movie about a doll that doesn't talk is not something that I am personally that interested in, even though Greta Gerwig and Noah Baumbach are involved. Are they really? Yeah, bro. That's, Greta Gerwig's, Baumbach is doing Barbie? I'm 90% sure that Greta Gerwig is the director. Okay. Yeah, no, no, that I did now that, I mean. So even if Noah doesn't have a writing or directing credit or anything like that, he's still going to have his hands all over it. Well, you know how it is when Bay comes home from work. You've got to talk about it. Some of that seeps into the workplace. When Gerwig comes home and kicks off her blundstones in Brooklyn Heights after a long day of telling Ryan Gosling to... Keep his heart on in his Ken boxer briefs. You know, it's a long day at the office. Margot Robbie doesn't bring much to the table for me personally. But I do think, I think friend of the show, Hari Neff, is in this movie, though, which is very cool. That's good. Barbie has a bunch of homies, and neither of them speak either. But, you know, I agree with your hesitation on how this is going to have, you know, some narrative and script and story based on.

Plastic toys from our childhood who never spoke or had any personality whatsoever other than perfect plastic bodies with no nipples or genitals. But, you know, Paddington 2, Hedgehog. There's a lot of characters. There's a runway. I'm saying there is light at the end of the tunnel. I see. There is gold in these thems hills and they thems hills. Oh, Jesus. Okay. On that note, Jason got his first they-them of the day. We do have a guest today. Legendary guitar player, singer-songwriter, Kurt Vile. I'm sure you know his music. He had a legendary back-to-back run of Smoke Ring from my Halo, one of my favorite album titles of all time, and Waking on a Pretty Days. His new album, Watch My Moves, is in stores now. He's got more hair than any man I've ever seen. He's got nine siblings. Jesus. I know, I know. It's all very crazy. He was in The War on Drugs, which I somehow didn't know until today, which is a big miss for me, as Geriatric Rock Twitter would let me know, I'm sure. Luckily, I didn't miss any Wilco facts. Don't worry, guys. It's not that crazy. We learned, I think it was the Parquet Courts episode, that one of his nine siblings is known as the Jell-O Man. That's right. Who is a mystical character who travels from different lumber shoots. Yeah, Bonnaroo. From Bonnaroo to Bumbershoot. Bumbershoots to Bonnaroo's to Desert Daises. And he's known for passing out jello shots. That's right. So, you know, there's a lot to cover here. And, yeah, I was listening to Kurt's new record this morning. It's very nice. So let's give him a buzz. Yeah, let's tap in with Kurt. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone. It was brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you.

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Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. It's funny. When you're a musician, it's a pain in the butt to, like, turn on an interface and record to Pro Tools and things like that because it reminds you of, like, what do you have to do all the time anyway, you know? For listeners at home, when you said it reminds you of, like, and then you kind of mimed like a traumatized. child or an animal that's been abused or something like that. Like, oh no, I got to do this thing that I love again. I haven't, no, I haven't turned on Pro Tools myself lately. Oh, he's popping now. You're too big for that shit. I like the idea of maybe your wife pranking you, like turning on Netflix for the night and all of a sudden it's the Pro Tools interface on the TV. You know what I mean? I think that's a good idea. You know, it's similar. You hear chefs talking about like, oh, I go home.

All I want to do is make a peanut butter and jelly. I don't want to fucking pull out the sushi knife and start chopping shallots and shit all day. That's it. So, Kurt, it looks like we're joining you from the study of a fine-tenured university where you are the professor at, and there's also a carousel horse behind you. I think my wife is the professor here, and the horse, that's mine. Okay. I got to say, it's a very impressive background. Yeah, this is top tier. And it looks like you're doing something good over there in Pennsylvania. This over here was used against me. I did one of those podcasts called Hollywood Handbook. You know that thing? We've also done Hollywood Handbook, and Hayes has been a guest on this show. They got me good. They got you good in what way? You know, maybe this is supposed to be a secret or something, at least in the podcast. The description was, oh, they're supposed to be just some Hollywood assholes and just play along. Sure. So I did. So I did play along, but I didn't know. Nobody told me they'd be Hollywood assholes to me. That is a difference. That's a kind of important fact to leave out. So they were like just dissecting my lyrics and using them against me. And then they used at the very end, they were like, what's that up there? I was like, that's the Oxford English Dictionary. And they're like. Well, maybe I'll use that next time you try to write some songs. Bye. And then they hung up on me. Really? Yeah, and at one time I – because I said shut up at one point because the characters were so mean that I was just like – I was just trying to play along. But don't get me wrong. I'm glad I met them. They were nice before and after. But still, I don't know. It took me two days to recover. Yeah, two days you were kind of plotting your revenge maybe. Not even. I'm just like my – My stomach hurt. I felt like my feelings were hurt. That's tough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I understand that. I mean, we did it, and we know Hayes. Hayes had done – one of the co-hosts, Hayes, had done our podcast. And it's interesting when you know – like we know someone, and obviously we had talked to him for an hour, and Jason, I mean, you'd have dinner with him and shit. But then you get on the same thing, and it's like, oh, we don't know you at all. Yeah.

As you are a musician and not an actor, we are also not actors. So it's a little bit of a strange curveball. If I ever did it again, I'd just be like, yeah, agree with everything they said. Like, oh, yeah, you're absolutely right. Because the more you try to go against what they're saying, the more you pay for it. That's true. Don't feed those trolls. Don't feed the trolls, Kurt. Don't feed the trolls. That said, they were nice guys in the beginning and the end. It's really mean in the middle. I like that. That's a great description. They'd probably love that. That's like your jacket quote for their podcast if it was a book. Yeah, they could use that quote. So are you in Pennsylvania? I am in Philly right now at home. I just finished a long – our first tour of the album was six weeks long and lots of preparation before then. But, yeah, so now I'm chilling at home. It's still kind of a hectic week, downtime. Preparation meaning musically or mentally and physically? Were you doing kind of squats and stuff to get ready for the stage? I was rehearsing. I was for a while doing yoga every day to be on that early schedule, do a bunch of videos, etc. And then once you go out on the road, you bring your yoga mat and you say you're going to do all these things and it goes out the window. So now I'm more of my normal stuff. I haven't done it since I've been on... gotten back from tour you know like i'm back i'm back on my regular shit not doing anything it's amazing i love being home i do yeah whenever we're traveling to do our live podcasting shows you know that's sort of when i break down and become a little more fragile on the road you know on the airplane that's when the yoga starts slacking off i start eating a lot of pretzels and almonds and drink you know day drinking for no reason and just letting it go. Almonds? It could be worse than almonds. It could be worse. He's being nice. It's usually more of a potato chip. I sit right next to the guy and see his intake. The plain potato chip hits really nicely 30,000 feet over Tulsa, though. You don't even need a dip. That's true. Wait, are you guys in Tulsa?

Was that random? No, no, no, no. Hell no. We're Hollywood assholes. We're in L.A. Cool. We're just talking about... Stereotypical Delta routing, that's all. What is your go-to, if they offer you pretzels or almonds, what are you doing? On the plane, honestly, these days, life is so weird, I try not to eat at all on the plane. Smart, smart, good answer. When you say life is so weird nowadays, what do you mean by that? Well, obviously, the COVID thing, but also even, I don't know, man. It's all so confusing, but I'll tell you what. It's funny, once I finally got back on a plane to record in LA, in the past, I've written songs about being afraid to fly. In the past, I would have to do all these things to fly, and I had my backup anxiety medicines, but when I finally actually got on the plane, I was like, man, these are the meds. I'm just going to sit in this chair and fly. It's like all of a sudden, it's like the ultimate value. But anyway, yeah, I don't know. You said the ultimate value or valium? Valium. Valium. Valium. Valium. You can't spell Valium without Yum. That's right. Yeah, Valley, Yum. Yeah, that's how I felt about it for a long time. It was delicious. Now, what do you think has your flying anxiety, is that since childhood, or is that something that developed when you started having to do it more often? I think it developed when I had to do it more often, and I think I pretty much know now it's got to do with traveling a lot, but also phones like everybody especially when you go on a road with a bunch of dudes or all kinds of events you know that everything is scary but even like in trumpian times it was just like heart your heart races all the time you know so like i think that combined with just being in the air and a little turbulence yeah it doesn't feel like just let's just say it doesn't feel like just a plane's gonna crash it feels like the universe is just gonna explode sure sure sure i mean What is your relationship to your cell phone, then? It sounds like it's fraught. I got to keep it in check. I, like, keep it away from me. You do have the brand-new iPhone, though. It must be a nice little unit. It is a nice unit, and I got to say, it sounds great, and, you know, things are moving along here. I do. I feel like crap after I am on the phone all day, but sometimes I do it, you know? I feel like you seem like the kind of guy who was a hell's.

healthy relationship with their phone, and they're able to put it down. I mean, yeah, sometimes. I've got to hide it. Well, I just feel like you're in a position where, you know, for the most part, you've got people doing the phone stuff for you, let's say. You know what I mean? Like the manager, the PR, you know what I mean? They do the bullshit. That is true, but I'll tell you what, because I don't want to say it's not true, because if they heard it, they would be so insulted because it is true. But, man, I've got to be on that phone and emailing. way more than you would think. And then if you step back, you would go, oh yeah, no, of course, you're right, because that's everyone. I mean, we all do a lot of sitting around, but I just think, you know, I do this thing, I have a nice trick for myself where I use the computer more. which makes me feel better than the phone, even though it's basically the same thing. Yeah, well, it's true. I would suggest trying something like a little trick, maybe. Yeah, maybe like having a porn addiction, but you only look at magazines. You're not using the internet, something like that, and that's a good way to justify it. Yeah, I feel that. You're an analog guy. You feel that, Kurt? You feel that? Okay. You could take it analog. When you hide your phone, do you hide it yourself? Do you give it to one of your kids? Do you have a lockbox? Like, what do you do to get rid of it? No, I put it in a drawer somewhere far away. So you know where it is, but you try to enter a different room to kind of create some separation. Of course. Okay. Chris, when's the last time you hid your phone? I've never done that in my entire life. Yeah, I feel, one, I feel the stress after a while, but I also just feel physically shit. Crappy from it. The repetition, it's almost like some kind of water torch. When you touch the same spot a hundred times, a hundred million times. It's like the opposite of finger picking. You're like, all right, every time I do this, a beautiful tone is produced and I get a little bit better at finger picking. This is all good. But every time you refresh that explore page on Instagram, your body starts to tense.

Your brain starts to die. Nothing good comes of it. All that is to say you're very good at finger-picking. Thanks. I'm also good at Instagram. Yeah, you're good at Instagram. The Twitter needs a little work. I'd like to see a little more of you in the tweets. Yeah, I don't do the Twitter. That's management. Yeah. It's all good, bro. Are you suffering from some carpal tunnel from all the guitar playing? And that could affect your phone use. You know what I mean? We've got to kind of prioritize. I was, but I literally feel like it's more phone. Really? I'm feeling pretty good right now, though, as long as I just got to keep it in check. I understand. So, Kurt, you're kind of like a family man. You like being at home. But you do have a family, so how often are you at your home alone? Oh, at my home alone? Kind of rarely, but I have my studio I can work in. I used to stay up later. Sometimes I still do, but I find I feel better waking up early instead, not going to bed quite as late as I used to. But when I used to stay up late, that was a big reason because I'd be basically alone just in my own world reading. playing guitar but the family have their activities so there's moments uh i'm alone and i have different places i can work yeah it was just it's just fascinating to me because like as a traveling musician you spend a lot of time in hotel rooms alone but i feel like the home you know like the being in your own house with nobody around and then you're like you almost forget they're like oh my god i'm home alone yeah i can do i can do anything and then you're like oh i can't wait to do absolutely nothing so i want to know when you're home alone the wife and kids are gone You know, maybe we close the blinds a little bit. I want to know what Vile's up to in the crib solo time. Man, that's a beautiful thing. I'm not talking about jacking off. Are we doing a fridge clean? Yeah, I do all that stuff. It really depends because, I don't know, these days, even when I'm home, I seem to be kept pretty busy. So once there's like one thing to do, something like this, it sort of makes me.

Move around like a bobblehead the rest of the day, like a pinball machine anyway. But if it's just total chill time. Total chill time. Yeah, I love to sit around and just read a book and listen to jazz records. But I do that when the family's around anyway. That's the beauty. Like if the kids are homeschooled, it's always the same sort of. It depends. If I'm obsessed with a certain TV show or something, I'll be watching it if I have a moment to do that. But just like anybody else, really. I love the idea of... So are you dropping the kids off at school and stuff when you're home? Because I really like the idea of you kind of socializing with other parents. Are you saying they're homeschooled completely? No, they're homeschooled, but they do go to some other kids who are homeschooled. Once a week, they go to this thing called Natural Creativity Center, and that's really cool. You fit in too much there. I'm talking about some. Some straight-laced shit. I'm talking about you. Yeah, I definitely don't like it. I definitely don't like that. I'm shy at first in general, so I hate talking to people at first. Yeah. I think it's this common knowledge. I'll be nice about it. I'll be like, hi, and then I'll just. Sure. Some people, sure. Some people might think I'm a dick. Don't love a first impression. That's part of my power is that. I don't care. Like, I don't care. You know, I'm that shy and maybe that in my own world that I'm going to just say a quick hi. Maybe not likely to be eye contact, maybe, but then I'm gone. So if you think of a dick, not trying to be, but I also don't care if you think I am. And also, you know, now that we just kind of turned 40, I think once you hit that milestone, then the not caring really kind of kicks in a little bit more, and then your kind of desire to let the world know that you don't care is like an extra bonus layer of freedom that is really fun to just say, like, I don't care. Yeah, it's a power for sure. It's even like, I feel like it's where I'm at in my music. I feel real confident. I've been around a while, and I know it's good.

i know that i got this thing i can tap to tap into that others can't i know i got contemporaries who have records out that are more successful than me and i know that i have certain review like pitchfork or something which i appreciate their reviews but they try to tell me about my music and like almost like they're like shame on you and i'm like i don't care because like i know it's great and i know i'm a great songwriter and you don't know what you're talking about you've listened to sound once or you know or this band sounds to you know did some trick to sound commercial so i don't care damn bro that's look i mean that's the best way to live i mean i do think that comes with age and experience like you said you've been around a while and you know that that stuff like kind of matters but at the end of the day when you've got like fans and you feel good like you're kind of good like it doesn't really like it's not going to affect the bottom line you're here to please yourself for first and foremost yeah sometimes i get pissed though sure sure i mean we every we we haven't spoken to a musician on this podcast who hasn't had some ill will against a pitchfork rider you know what i mean yeah but i want to say i'm grateful yeah of course a place like pitchfork is interesting because i feel like they've been very nice to you over the years they have they have I'm grateful for pitch work, but I, whatever, I'm just, I'm 42 years old. I've been doing this a long time. I paved the way for a lot of these bands that are maybe a little younger, or maybe not necessarily, but I still paved the way, a certain way for a certain style. Sometimes I'm like, this is it. This is the one, you know, and then it's still sort of lukewarm. But I know it's great. I don't care if the reviews don't say it. I still did win. No, you did. I agree. I mean, you know, being a, you know. well-liked, successful musician is the win. That's something that a lot of people don't get to do. You know what I mean? So, fuck it. I mean, you're right. Beatles wrote a lot of bad songs, too. You know what I mean? They're doing just fine. They're doing just fine. On this podcast, we talk a lot with musicians about syncs.

about big money they got for licensing a song. So how did you pay for this house, Kurt? Or big money they lost. Or big money they lost. Did you turn down something you should have done? That only reminds me of the one time early on, and I wasn't as conscious about politics because I wasn't paying attention because I was just trying to keep it all afloat. But I just agreed to a Bank of America commercial and wasn't thinking about it. This was back in 2011, I guess. So after the financial crash, B of A was crawling back? No, I just got a lot of flack for that. Did you really? I got called out. Who was it? I can't remember who it was. The dude from that band Titus Andronicus. It was like Occupy Wall Street. It was all Occupy Wall Street times. And I was like, that was literally... When I think I heard about it, all of a sudden I was like, what's that? And at the time you're like, I'm doing this commercial so I can keep occupying my house. Yeah. Yeah. I got more important things to work on. So how much did Bank of America give you for that song? It wasn't even that much money. It wasn't even that much money then. I don't remember, but it wasn't. $12,500, something like that. I don't know. But. I wouldn't do that. That was in the high two figures. I definitely wouldn't do that today. I don't regret doing it. You've got to watch it, man. There's so much corruption everywhere. I can't even keep up anymore. I don't even want to, but I have to. I can't tell you exact figures I've gotten. Because I'm corrupt, too. You also did a little songwriting with... pop sensation Kesha. Is that true? Well, I really had fun working with her. I think she's amazing. And that was not a slight or a diss. Kesha is cool in our book. Yeah, no. She wrote my manager out of the blue, or her manager, and said she wanted to write songs with me. I think she does it with a lot of people, but it was perfect timing because it was pandemic, and I was like, I needed that boost. I was like, what? Really? And then I wrote, I kind of...

wrote songs for her in a different way. I mean, we did write songs together, which is where we tried to, but she kind of likes to have a partner or two and shoot ideas around and people come up with lines. But I also immediately kind of romantically felt like Bob Dylan or something and wrote a song for her, you know, at home, which was Flying Like a Fast Train. That was the one, and it ended up being on this record. I got attached to it pretty quick, but she was interested in it. Yeah, we did a session like – but it was over the internet. She was in a studio with Sean Everett, who I love, and I was on the other side of a computer and sending files. Talk about having to turn on Pro Tools and – It's a disaster. Taking all the romance and electricity out of a session. We bonded, for sure, but it was only ever over the phone and stuff, and I never got to be in the studio with her, so I hope I get to. Have you done a lot of that, though? No. I was like, because you are on your own planet in this way where I'm like, I don't know if I'm another artist. I'm not totally sure how that translates to me. No matter how much I like what you're doing, I'm like, I'm not totally sure how I can. work with this you know what i mean yeah no it it's true you gotta feel it out but that's sort of the beauty and also the heart attack if like before it happens you're like how am i gonna do this and then you just feel it out you know sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't and that one with kesha it worked out in one way because me and my daughters became a big fan of certain songs and i was like wow she's from another universe but another way no did we ever release anything not yet But maybe sometime. I would love to be in the studio again. No, I'm sure it'll come out eventually. Something will come out. You know how that stuff goes. It sits on the hard drive for years. You never know. For some reason, when I think of Kesha lately, I just want to say, speaking of pop music, my latest pop sensation that I'm totally obsessed with is Charlie XCX. I love that new record so much. She destroys me.

That's all I want to say. She's a listener. She's a listener and former guest. Oh, wow. We love Charlie as well. I didn't know you were gay, Kurt. That's interesting. I'm just another one of Charlie's angels. So why this most recent Charlie album and not all of her other bop after bop discography? I actually didn't know. I saw her name around, but I didn't know the music. And then I saw that album around. I saw. that interesting people were into it like John Brannon from Negative Approach. I don't know. Really? What? John Brannon from Negative Approach is talking about Charlie XCX? Well, he seems to be a fan. He seems to be a fan. The cover art sucks you in. Yeah, the cover art did – I saw it on the internet first, and the cover art did – was like, wow. And then people were talking about it a lot. But then I did an in-store. I did an in-store at Rough Trade East at the end of my – press tour and there was a giant poster of her on the door of the album and I feel like I started listening a little before then but then by the time by the time I got there it was all over because you know it was like promotion like it was like I was sucked into it but then but then I don't know it really grew on me and then I heard some of her older songs I never heard like boom clap and I love that too I don't know and I love that song 1999 1999. 1999. I like this for you. This is a little bit of a twist because I don't know. I mean, I guess when you have younger kids, I mean, not that Charlie's that example, but like with younger kids, you're probably exposed. You know, you're listening to BTS and shit, stuff that you never expected you would have to hear. Yeah. But are they putting you on to anything else? Who, my kids? Yeah, yeah, yeah. My kids... Because, look, Dad's forcing them to listen to fucking avant-garde jazz, and they're probably like, Dad, can you chill? Yeah, yeah. I don't want to hear this 78 RPM third man test pressing, Dad. I'm on TikTok. Yeah, no, I don't know. But, like, last I'll say is, really, it's just a new album. When you listen to it in the headphones, songs like that song, Constant Repeat, I don't know, that just creeps up on you really fast. It's like, they don't have just, like, one chorus. They have multiple, like...

different versions of choruses and the production and musicality is distractingly really good like uh like like I'm a junkie or you know for it or something but I haven't listened in a while but I I just thought of it when Kesha you know you're gonna have to really edit the hell out of this because people are just kidding I'm a junkie. I'm a junkie for a big hook as well. So I'm scratching my arms right now. I heard a theory recently. I was listening and I heard a theory recently that the bridge is dying. You know, like songs are so short now that the bridge, one of the greatest parts of music, one of the greatest parts of a song structure, in my opinion, is being trimming the fat. We're trimming the fat, but with you, your songs are six minutes. You can do two, three bridges. It's no problem for you. Well, that's interesting because I have a theory, strong theories about bridges too, and that is that usually it's hard to make a great bridge. And when there's a great bridge, it belongs there. But often... People are just putting a bridge there. It sounds like a different song for a second just so they can do the chorus one last time. That's right. Yeah, it's a bridge. Yeah, it's rare when you hear a bridge and you're happy to hear it and it's a slight chord change and you're like, oh, this makes the song better. And you're right, usually it's just another excuse to add the chorus one more time. It's so hard to do it, so people are nowadays like, let's not even try. Yeah, I never had an actual – I have a few times you could have a – I had a conventional bridge, I guess, just by accident. But, yeah, that's the interesting thing about the Charlie because – That's why I said it's two choruses. It's like a different part, so it could be a bridge, but they're both so catchy you don't know which is the chorus or the bridge. I don't know. That's what I'm looking for in my music. I like catchy shit. You know what I mean? It keeps our junky brains guessing and excited and ready to lap it up even more. Kurt, you're like a self-described obsessive person with music. Is that safe to say? Yeah.

Yeah. What are some kind of non-musical obsessions of yours that we might not be aware of? Like Chris is obsessed with watching videos from 90s late night television. I'm obsessed with eating a good sandwich or something like that. For you, Kurt, what are those things? Where do you get really overly obsessed? Man, okay. Well, I think pretty much anything I get into. like books you know like i read the most modern art writer that i can fiction writer that i can think of the best writer i've ever come across personally and i know others agree is dennis johnson you know like uh and i read jesus's son and then i just got hooked then i'll just read all you know all the books sure that's that's how i'm obsessive this pandemic was very convenient for just sitting around and reading you know that's right it was my dream To be honest. So I finally caught up on a lot. But people like I really respect kept dropping his name. Yeah. I mean, Jesus' Son is a classic. Terry Allen, you know, the outsider country artist. He's a superhero of mine. And he was like the nail in the coffin of I have to read this because he – I read an interview and he's like – they're like, what are you into reading? He's like, anything by Dennis Johnson. And that was after I kept hearing his name. around a lot so what is your relationship to country music i mean the gateway drug for me lately which i mean is like 2015 is that i read the george jones's autobiography i live to tell it all and then from there yeah it made all the rock biographies i read obsolete because made them all seem like posers because like you know what i mean uh because they just lived it hard and they yeah yeah this isn't true it Exactly, but I like what Chris Christofferson said in the country music doc to Ken Burns. He's like, country music is like soul music for white people. It's not strictly for white people, but like more of a – you know what I mean? Sure, yeah. It's our – all those country artists, they can usually sing or play around you, and they're ten times more insane than any rock and roller claims to be. Then you actually listen to the music too, but I was brought up on country music, just the basics through my dad, like bluegrass and old-time music.

Doc Watson, et cetera, through my dad and just the basics like Hank Williams and Johnny Cash through my dad. Because I'm obsessive, then you just deep dive into all that stuff and you're like, oh, wow, yeah. Country music, the land where I'm from with all its controversy, it's got this beautiful historic music that we – sure, we stole from all along the way, but it's still ours. I'll take it. I mean I kind of feel – I think it's an under – I mean, because I'm from the south. I'm from Atlanta. And, like, as a kid, you're a little bit like – I was a little bit like that's, like, redneck shit. Like, I didn't get it because I was into, like, hardcore and punk. So I was like, this is, like, I don't fuck with this. Well, yeah. And then you get older and you're like, oh, this is pretty fucking good. And these guys were also doing more amphetamines than, you know. These guys were on the same shit. These guys are fucked up. They were living harder and faster than most. Yeah, these guys are fucked up. They're fucking chicks. This is cooler. Exactly. This might be cooler. Exactly. Like, this might actually be cooler. And they don't talk about it. You know, they don't make it their identity. They're like, yeah, I have, like, multiple STDs and I shot someone, but I don't, like, make it my, you know, I don't have a billboard for it. Speaking of classic legendary music, this is something I've been thinking about and noticing lately with Michael Jackson. It was sort of... a faux pas to play his music you know at a wedding or like they kind of stopped playing it was a little over you know djs can't play in the club radio stations weren't playing it you know things like that and now when i listen to the radio i hear non-stop michael jackson like as if there was a like a jail sent like you know like all right you guys 18 months and then somebody flipped a switch yeah and i know it was like how uh you know How long do you have to wait before you can start listening to that music again? And how much of that is based on how good the music is? I think the key is death. Yeah, death is a big part of it. Maybe you're talking about when that movie came out and maybe they stopped playing them for a minute. Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Once that movie came out and everyone was like, oh, maybe we shouldn't be. It's hard for me to enjoy this wonderful music knowing.

what he has done to these children. But then, you know, three years later, they're like, okay, I'm all good now. I'm ready to boogie on down to Thriller. Like, is that ever going to happen with, like, Bill Cosby or R. Kelly? Like, do you have to be a legacy artist like Michael Jackson to break through and be uncancellable? You know what I mean? Yeah, I did hear R. Kelly at the bar. San Diego on this tour, and I was like, wow. Well, that's San Diego for you. Yeah, I was about to say. I didn't necessarily realize, but it makes sense that he was the one who sang. Let me hear that doo-doo. Let me give it that beep-beep. He did sing that. And I was like, that is still catchy. Very catchy. It is. I mean, it is. I think the key is death. jason honestly i think the key is death like if you die and people are just kind of like well i mean he's dead you know what i mean like what are we going to do like how how much more can we make him suffer i don't like michael jackson enough to listen to like i don't think about michael jackson really no like it's classic songs but like i don't put that on at my house you know it's like a haynes white t-shirt everyone wears it you don't think about it many would beg to differ with that for sure but like i just i i don't that's not the kind of music i'm going to listen to at my house Or in my car. No. I don't know. That's just not what I'm reaching for. It's hard with me. I'll be honest. Because I just love music. So I definitely don't support. That sounds awful. Of course. Anything... You're able to separate the art from the artist because you're such a music lover? Yeah, the song. I just listen to the song. Tarantino and Weinstein had a good run, you know what I mean? Stuff like that. Oh, did Tarantino get... No, no, no. I'm talking about Harvey. I'm sure Tarantino, he's any day now, but... Oh, okay. Oh, he was tight with Harvey. Yeah, every time you watch a Tarantino movie, the first thing that comes up, you know, Harvey Weinstein is on there. And you're like, oh, yeah, Harvey Weinstein. Well, I think anybody that made a movie in 20 years...

was successful i think harvey weinstein was involved to be to be fair at least at least his at least miramax or one of the companies you know what he worked for at minimum yeah of course quentin i mean quentin's a certified freak no question he's open with it though he lets a little air it lets a little steam out with those with those feet shots he's yeah he definitely he's paying for feet pics for sure kurt are you on wiki feet what is that you know exactly what it is curtis Don't lie to us. You don't act like you don't know. You know what Wikipedia is? Yeah, I know what Wikipedia is, but... Okay, it's an encyclopedia of words. I know, but you said WikiFeet. That's right. WikiFeet is an... I think you might be able to put two and two together on what it is. Is that real? Or are you just making it up? No, of course. You better check. It's a comprehensive encyclopedia of often celebrities, but sometimes some more... lesser known individuals. And it's their feet? Yeah. A collection of their feet photos and you can kind of rate and review them, share them with your friends. You better check because your joints might be on there. I don't know what you're working with. You could be on there is all I'm saying. You have a pretty high profile. Yeah. That word is simultaneously like great and it's also the most worst, most annoying word I ever heard. It makes me feel, it makes me feel insane. Wiki feet. Wiki feet makes me feel insane. It's like hot Cheetos. I keep eating them, but I don't like it. I understand. But yeah, you should check because you might be on there. You never know, man. Have you ever performed barefoot on stage? No. At one of the stinkier festivals? Not into that. I'm not into that either unless you're a hot chick. I don't think I'll ever do it, but a couple times I almost went on stage and cut off jean shorts, but that's never something you want to do. Well, do you feel that same way about books, though? Because this is the thing that I've noticed. A lot of people have that same, you know, I like a battered Telecaster. I got jeans with holes in them and stains on them, but they're very protective in particular about their books and their records. I try not to mess my records or my books up. Books get messed up pretty easily. I do get a little bummed when it's...

bent but that's all right i like a book that looks like it's been through hell and back you know run over a couple times by a gmc jimmy i get so much out of a book that like i get so obsessed because like yeah there's the music and then when you have the book if it's something you're into it's like it's it's the bible it's a little more sacred you have to be careful because i bet you're reading the pool a lot back there so you don't want to get the you know You don't want to splash. No pool. No pool here, man. No pool. This ain't no Hollywood handbook. I'm sure. What about infrared? Do you have an infrared sauna, Kurt? That's where I get my reading done. You don't have any of this stuff? I thought you'd done a publishing deal. What's going on over there? Are you okay? Well, I'm not saying I won't have a pool one day. My daughters are super into swimming, actually, but not here in Philly. Yeah, I guess it's tough. tough in philly yeah it's did you ever live anywhere else did you ever live in new york or la or have you always been in philadelphia uh when in my early 20s i lived in boston for a couple of years but yeah we wouldn't have had a pool back then either that was a that was a separate question but thank you when you when you do get a pool what shape will it be in we go on elvis presley style guitar maybe more of a rick ross kind of thing where he has different fun shapes wow that's that's a deep question man i That sounds like something my girls being my daughters and my wife would decide, to be honest. So what is it like being the only man in the house? Is that a struggle for you, or do you find joy in that? I like it. I guess if I was to have a son, I'm sure I'd instantly be attached to him, but we never wanted a son. I didn't want to have a kid that I'd have to chase around or play catch with. Sure. Like, I'd rather just take it easy off. Really? Yes. That's the coolest response I could possibly imagine. Okay, so play and catch. I'm all set. I'd rather kind of kick my feet up, have a Coors banquet, and read a good book. In the good old days, yeah. Modelo. Actually, I don't drink anymore, but, yeah, I was way more interested in doing that.

playing any sport whatsoever or having, like if this, if it's a real high energy boy, like having to chase, because my dollars were enough to chase around. If I had a boy, I'd just lose it. You know, there are, there are kind of prescription sedatives that you can get if, if you got one that's a little too high octane. Yeah. And you can also, um, Maybe you can get him to be chill just by you being chill. But I think some boys, they're just known to be crazy. He got the devil in him. So did you just come out of the womb being this chill? Or did you ever have a spastic period of your life? Me? I'm not. I mean, sure, this is one side of me to be chill. That's my ultimate sell. That's what I want to do. I will lose my mind for sure, freak out, get stressed. Life is stressful, my life is stressful. It can be, but I'm trying to always do what you've got to do to make it not stressful. Smoking like a true boss. So how much weed are we smoking, or is it minimal? I think he's full straight edge, man. No, no, I'm not full straight edge. Let me be clear. Alcohol, strangely, just caught up to me at night. It never was my... necessarily my drug of choice but somewhere along the way like 2018 all of a sudden I was like man I used to I can get all this stuff out of a can of beer which I used to try to chase as a kid like think I need all kinds of different things but really it's just because I was addicted or you know I was like using it to temporarily take away stress or whatever you know I was just And I knew I had to stop, basically. That's all. We can't look puffy for Pitchfork. You know what I mean? You got to keep that. I was getting there. Yeah, you're a svelte guy. That's part of your appeal. And I also want to talk about your hair. You know what I mean? Because it's really something, bro. And I was just wondering what the – what's the routine like? Are you washing and conditioning daily, weekly? Is there a hair oil? Like what are we doing to maintain that? You're asking this question at the right time. And also not a gray in sight. I do have grays. Not full on, but I – Lie to me, Kurt. Lie to me. I promise I'll believe.

I mean, I'll tell you, maybe some will find this interesting and some will find it boring, but you're asking this at the right time. We'll find a way to add color to it. Don't worry. That's what we do here on How Long Gone. Don't worry. My youngest sister, Madeline, she's got the best hair in the world, and she recently just put me on her routine, which is like, I'm not going to say exactly what they are, but the brand is Diva Curl, but you have to just wash your hair. You have to wash your hair. You're using DevaCurl, which I'm familiar with. It's specifically made for those with curlies. Isn't that – and DevaCurl has a – is it D-E-E-V-A or something? Like it's spelled a little differently, right? I think it's just D-E-V-A, but I'll have to look. Okay, so Madeline puts you on to the DevaCurl. I'll tell you. I'm not going to tell you exactly what it is, but it's a serious routine. At first it was so intense. You're going to have to pay for that. At first it was so intense. I was like, I can't believe I'm going to do this. Basically, people with curly hair, they think they have to put oil in it when really your scalp, et cetera, is supposed to produce – your hair is supposed to produce that oil anyway. So anyway, I just wash my hair once a week with all this stuff. And then throughout the week, whenever you take a shower, you don't wet it whatsoever. You've got to literally wear a shower cap. Wow. I love the idea of you walking around in a towel and a shower cap. That's really something. Yeah, it's called a body shower. Well, good. And some people have to specify that. Good, I'm glad. So if you were to take your hair out of its pony or its bun, is it going down to the ass crack? Is that how long it is? No, it's not. It's just past. It's past my shoulders. Have you ever had a shaved head at any point in your life? I had a pretty good buzz a few times in my life. You got a pretty good buzz going? Yeah. You got a pretty good buzz going? Yeah. Good one. Well, Kurt, we're joking. We're laughing. But a lot of people listen to this show in the skin, beauty, health, and wellness world. And there's a good chance that the diva curl people will listen to this.

reach out to your people to send over a care package. Of course, you don't have to post it on Instagram, but it'd be nice if you could. Yeah, exactly. That's, you know, I've already, yeah, had my people be like, I can ask them and get stuff for you. I'm like, well, I'm not going to post a commercial, but yeah. Is that something that you've ever done before, Kurt? I'm sure I have, but I wouldn't be like, I'm not, I don't think this is the point of my career to be like, do hair. Hair commercials. Well, Kurt, there's never going to be a point in your career where you should be doing that. The idea of scrolling, hitting your Instagram stories and seeing hashtag ad for Diva Curl is really something that I'm looking forward to. And hopefully one day they can get their money up and kind of make you an offer you can't refuse. We are in an inflation and a recession. We're laughing now, but it might be something that we got to do. Well, I do get asked this question enough that. Even if I just drop their name in interviews, I'm sure I'll be able to get some free stuff because that's just the way it works. Yeah, that's right. Look, Kurt, I didn't think my question was original, but you don't have to tell me you get asked all the time, you asshole. No. Okay. No, that's not what I meant. No, he gets asked a lot by brands to post. No, but nobody asked me in an official podcast. Oh, I see. Don't worry. You mean in your personal life people will come. More like fans. Yeah. Like on Reddit. I was asked on Reddit. Oh, that's good. And I did answer. That's good. I think this is cool. I think this is cool for you. Nobody asked me that, but I also have a shaved head, so that's kind of part of my problem. But I do use a nice Crown Affair scalp oil. It looks good. Thank you. Thank you. Keep it kind of moisturized. Yeah, Jason, thank you. It does look good. Thank you. I don't mean to hijack this and make it about hair as the guy with the least amount of hair on the show. You do look cool with the butt. Thank you. Thank you. Not a lot of cats can pull it off. It's true.

I mean, it's not easy to pull off. I was trying to look kind of tough. You know what I mean? Like, would you want to see me in a back alley? You know what I mean? No. Well, speaking of that, I was talking to Chris a couple days ago. I've seen a trend on social media with bands posting about their vans getting broken into and all of their shit getting stolen. Is this a thing that you've seen a rise in? Have you seen a rise in indie crime, Kurt? God, I mean. That sounds awful. I haven't seen it personally. It's definitely awful. So you've never had that? You've never had a little? I had a backpack stolen at Southwest that did have all my best stuff in it, but I was silly to think I could leave it in a shared backstage with a million other bands from all over the world. This must have been a long time ago because we know you ain't sharing a backstage these days. Yeah, that's right. This is like 2011. Oh, yeah, 2011, different time, bro. We didn't know. Back when South By was South By. Yeah, before they had Interactive, if you know what I'm saying. Yeah. Are you playing a lot of festivals this summer? Are you going to get to link up in Barcelona, Paris? Where are you going? I was really serious FOMO with the Primavera Barcelona this year. Everybody I know, all my friends and just all my favorite modern bands playing it except for me. And it's also like the pavement. How are you not opening the pavement tour? Is that just they don't have enough money, or what's the deal? Oh, well, because I'm headlining my own tour. Oh, there we go. Big dog. That's right. No, but I'm planning to see them in Philly, and I'm going to sit in with them. Oh, you are. What's your relationship with the GOAT, Stephen Malcolmus? Are you guys boys? We are boys now. I mean, he was always nice to me. He knew I was a fan since, you know. Early on, he knew Pavement was my favorite band. I signed to Matador. They were my favorite band as a kid. I still love them, but I've seen them enough. I opened for them the first reunion in Philly, and he sat in on stage with us. We sat in with him, but I've seen them enough now that we're definitely bros. So how does this work? They're like, all right, fam, we're coming to Philly.

Do you bring your own guitar? They tell you you're playing this song, Walk Out. Is that the vibe, or is there more preparation? No, literally, because I saw that they were playing Primavera, and it looked so good. I was looking at footage, and I literally booked a solo show two years ago just to play Primavera when Pavement was supposed to play. Yeah, sure, sure. Just so you wouldn't have to buy a plane ticket. Yeah, I was going to go there all week, like literally just play a solo gig just so I could see that. And then, you know, the pandemic hit. So anyway, I wrote him and I said, dude, man, it looks awesome. I was supposed to be there so bummed, but I'm stoked to see you in October. And then I saw the set list and I saw there was Zurich is Stained on there. And I had this old recording of me doing it when I was 24 years old, you know. I'm 42 now, so that's the yin and the yang with that. And I just sent it to him, just to be like sort of nostalgic. I was like, this isn't amazing, but it's still kind of cool. I wish I was there. And then he just wrote me back. He's like, want to sing Zurich Stained in Philly? And I said, yeah. So I don't know. Maybe I'm just singing. Okay. Well, whatever. I feel like bring a guitar just in case. You never know. Yeah. I like to drop my own D. Thank you. Has Malcolmus got you out onto the tennis court yet, Kurt? Well, see, that would fall in my... That would require you to do an activity? Things I don't do, you know. That's why I don't want a son. Just want to clear that up. All right. Kurt Vile, thank you for joining us on How Long Gone. It was a pleasure. And we're big fans over here, so it was nice to chat with you. Wow, thank you so much. Yeah, this was really fun.

Thank you.