067. - Dan Frommer

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Want to make a podcast? Spotify's got a platform that lets you make one super easily, then distribute it everywhere, and even earn money. We like that. All in one place for totally free. It's called Spotify for Podcasters. And here's how it works. Spotify for podcasters lets you record and edit podcasts right from your cellular telephone or your computer. So no matter what your setup is like, you can start creating today. Then you can distribute your podcast to Spotify and everywhere else, those other places that podcasts are heard. Video podcasts are also available on Spotify. And when you want to take conversations with your fans to the next level, Q&As and polls are the best way to get them talking. With Spotify for podcasters, you can earn money in a variety of ways, including ads and... and podcast subscriptions. And best of all, it's totally free. Zero catch. We've been using it ever since we started How Long Gone. And ever since I discovered Spotify for Podcasters, I feel like having the option of turning off the Q&As and the polls on the user dashboard has really helped boost my creativity and take it to another level. I highly recommend giving it a try. Download the Spotify for Podcasters app or go to www.spotify.com slash podcasters to get started.

Oh, good morning, Chris. How are you? Oh, man, just listening to the Psy High The Prince. Travis Scott reference track getting pumped up to do this podcast. When's the last time you heard the word Psy High The Prince? Psy High, I assumed he was one of those guys that had found his niche below the celebrity line and was probably making a lot more money than we realized, which disproves that fact. I mean, there could be a lot of people listening right now who don't even know who that is. Is he a Chicago guy? He's a rapper from Chicago? Yes, he is. But he was a Kanye West affiliate. And then kind of, you know, his career never really. Oh, actually, you know, he might be from Atlanta, to be honest with you. The name Sai Hai is never going to take you to stardom, I guess. And also, who wants to be a prince when everyone is talking about king shit? You know what I mean? God damn it. I'm a prince. It's not bad. Oh, yeah, he's from Stone Mountain, baby. Stand up, ATL represent. You already know what the fuck going on. Stone Mountain? Bro, on this side, Stone Island only. I understand. Well, Stone Island's a racist monument that is being dismantled. There's a huge problem with it yesterday. Really? Well, yeah, it's the Confederate monument in Atlanta. It's like a giant stone with shit like dudes carved to the side, like Confederate heroes carved to the side. And yesterday there was a big clash between... white rednecks with machine guns. I was more talking about the Stone Island that makes orange sweatpants for $800. Yeah, I mean, look, if I had to choose anything with Stone, that would be my probably number one choice. But our mutual friend Decatur Dan just sent a link to some Cy High reference tracks where he apparently wrote the popular Travis Scott song. What's it called? Sicko Mode. sicko mode which i actually consider to be a drake song um yeah it is a drake song um big drake came i mean what did you think about the new drake song um you're talking about laugh now cry later yeah i'm gonna say certified lover boy certified lover boy in stores coming september at some point but yes i i laugh now cry later i'm giving it a seven of ten mid

I'm going to go 6.5. Reggie leaning mid. Reggie trending mid. Mid rising, but the root date of that song is unfortunately going to be Reggie with a rising mid. I understand that. I've listened to it in the car a few times and it grew me a little bit, but I just like the melody. But I also think the beat is kind of a broke boy's trophies. It's very similar, but with a keyboard instead of actual horns. I've watched the video a few times. Honestly, I don't even know how the song goes because it doesn't really have a hook. The little Dirk verse where he says, I'm going to have Drake surrounded by Drakes talking about Dracos is very cool. Yeah, I mean, like our friend Dan was saying, nice to see him give little Durky... A good look. Well, come on. We know that Drake loves to give a look to somebody who's legitimately from the streets. That's a certified Drake move. But I agree still. Much like his Chicago bro compatriot, Chief Keefe, he has put out a lot of music that is really bad. But still cool because he's a real street, actual street rapper. Yes, that's why. I think that that is okay. I don't know why, but that's Gucci Mane too. You know what I mean? He put out so many fucking mixtapes. I think they should have had Popstar be the single. I think Laugh No Cry Later is okay. And the video was pretty good. It was very much just in the style of that old Drake style, but he was using his access to celebrities. as the as the hero theme of the video maybe a little bit too much i disagree i quite like the video i think it's actually very funny i think it's really timely right for right now like it's like because fun and funny it's it's filmed in total isolation in in in bleak darkness juxtaposed with exorbitant spending and wealth and and cars that aren't available for purchase um i never thought about that way to me the video feels very very isolated

Well, I think if you shoot a video on the closed down Nike campus in the middle of the night, it's going to feel isolated. I think that's the point. Yeah, but it doesn't really incite any excitement from me. It's more of just like this, you know, here is, it isn't fun. I'm not going to be excited about a music video in 2020. I mean, why not? We have to be excited. Because music videos barely serve a purpose. I don't even know who watches them. The only reason we're watching that video is because it's a Drake video, and he's the biggest artist in the world. Yeah. I mean, I guess if something – there's a – viral aspect or something we watch it because it's like on youtube and it's easy but like beyond that i don't know who's watching music videos besides super fans which when you're drake is enough lots of lots of younger people watch videos a lot i don't know if that's true because if that was true i don't think the budgets would have gone down by 150 and since we were it just depends on the genre do you think those those black pink and bts budgets are going down Probably. Because they don't... Okay, they went from $4 billion to $3.5 billion. No, because of Blackpink or BTS, the fans are so insane, they could literally shit out a TikTok-level video and it's all hitting. They could, but they don't. They choose to... I think they spend a lot of money on their production and all their shit because they just make so much. And they really believe in the craft of creating a quality product versus American rappers are often... kind of limping in, as it were, and then hoping to maybe keep those minuscule budgets for themselves so they can buy Boa Steakhouse fucking appetizers. Speaking of not to switch topics just abruptly, when are we going to Boa? When are we going to Boa to see these TikTokers? I think we should actually do this. This could be funny. How long has Boa been around for? Boa's been hot since the Hills era. At least. Boa was hot-ish in the Hills era, which was 15 years ago. I guarantee you Boa does numbers every night. I don't think that Boa has maintained its cool. I mean, I guess that is the perfect example of TikTok being large and huge and influential and powerful, but also just disgustingly uncool. So uncool that they're like, Boa is the only place that will really let us cook right now.

Well, I think there's truth to that, but I also think Boa's open and Boa's probably giving them a deal. Right. And they live right there. Boa is the Donald Trump of restaurants in LA. That's true. I saw a Twitter account tattletaling on some TikTok for having a party. That's like the whole account was a thread showing all the people. What pleasure do you get out of telling on 20-year-old hotties? Like what good – how does that make you feel? Well, if you're a 20-year-old ugly and who is not invited to that party, you get a good amount of pleasure. No, it's adults. That's what's so dark about it. Like all this – like literally putting – going on TikTok and screenshotting videos of teenagers partying together and then telling on them is insane to me. That is so insane. I mean that is very pathetic. But what – is it more pathetic to tattletale on these 15-year-olds for having a beer pong tournament in Calabasas or is it – Is it more just, you know, is it more terrible to celebrate them and write stories about them and praise their positivity and like interview them and be like, what are you up to now, Tyler? Both are bad. It's equally stupid because it's not interesting. It's like these lobotomized hotties dancing to videos with nail polish on is so uninteresting to me. I can't, they're not even that talented. It's not, there's nothing like talking about your life is not a talent. It didn't used to be a talent, but it is a talent now. The bar for that is odd because we as a people have advanced so far in the world of mental health in the last couple decades, at least in our lifetime. You would think that we would not reward such basic entry-level conversations about mental health. where people, you know, just an influencer dum-dum can start a TikTok or a YouTube or a podcast and say, like, sometimes I get sad and I talk to my friends and friends are important for that. And everyone's like, fuck, mind equals blown. You just fucked me up, bro. Fuck me all the way up. So wait, you're hot and you're rich, but you still have problems? Damn, it really makes you think. I think it's just, you know, the intelligence.

of people i mean did the intelligence of people i don't know we we we continue to get smarter and smarter and dumber and dumber all at the same well i i think that the You know, if it's their peers discussing it, then I totally understand. But it's not. It's like adults dissecting it in this way that's like, is this really your life's goal? I mean, like, I guess if you get paid for it, you get paid for it. But I just like, I can't believe you could find that interesting for a long period of time. These people are fucking boring. They are. And that's how little most Americans have to live for. Where the best use of their time is like, you know what? I'm not going to stop watching. And I'm going to do something with my life. I'm going to start a freaking Twitter where I update people about the whereabouts of TikTok stars in different places in the valley. I also, last night, I switched on my TV here. And I flicked on a little streaming service you may have heard of called Netflix. And there's a new show about wellness. I think it's called Unwell. It's like a six-part series about wellness trends. Yeah, I think I saw that. The first one is about essential oils, and it is fucking good. Highly recommended. It's so fucking weird. Basically like pyramid scheme marketing to sell essential oils from weird Christian families. Oh, does it talk about what one of the brands is? yeah there's like two big ones i can't remember their names but there's two big brands because i know it is kind of a pyramid scheme and i know that because my mom may have used to or may still participate in one of those damn but also a lot i've seen a lot of a lot of moms fuck with yeah it's a mom it's basically it's basically a christian suburban

I didn't know there was a Christian angle, though. I didn't think that Christian people fucked with essential oils, unless it's canola. Yeah, I went there. One of the guys they interview, Dr. Z, who's a fucking total serial killer, and his wife, and they have like four kids, and they live, of course, in Georgia. He started his own program, and he's like a millionaire from teaching you how to make your own oils and how to use them and how you can ingest them because a lot of people say you shouldn't. It's interesting. I highly recommend it. Damn, I'm about to watch. I mean it doesn't seem very cost-effective to make your own essential oils. Well, you can't, I guess. I can't remember what the rules are because of what the FDA, like if he tells you how to make them, then he can tell you about their healing properties and like to ingest them. But if he, if he, if he sells actual oils and tells you to ingest them, then it's illegal. You know, it's like a, it's all for like legal loopholes. He found a loophole in the system. Exactly. I live in Kennesaw with my four kids and you know, When we're not praising Jesus, we're drinking oil. When did this happen, though? Because you growing up in the sweet Georgia South, no moms were fucking around with like rub a little teeth. We had Tupperware. In my day, it was Tupperware parties. But it's the same idea. It's basically like you get a woman. to have a party at her house, and she gives you some cucumber water and some sandwiches, and she sells you this shit, and you buy it, and then you have to sell it. It's pretty incredible. But honestly, I would recommend it. That was very interesting. I didn't make it through the whole episode, but I got close. Do you think if I tell my mom to watch it, she will quit the essential oil game, Cold Turkey, on site? It depends, Jason. I don't know how the benefits are working for Karen. Or how deep in the game she is. She might need more deprogramming. She could be stacking guap with them oil sales. She's like, Jason, if you knew how many fucking keys I was moving a week, you would shut the fuck up. Bitch, I only sleep because there's lavender oil. You think I'm going to just give it up? That's crazy. She has the Thule on her right now. Do not say Thule. I will watch that.

I was thinking when we were talking about Lil Durkee, Chief Keef just turned 25. Isn't that fucked up? Chief Keef has been a part of our lives for so long. And he is so young. I saw somebody say this about his birthday yesterday. He's influenced two generations of rappers and he's only 25, which is pretty crazy. Maybe three. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not as big as a Keef. I'm more of an other Keef head. We know... What is the other Keith, Chris? Keith Richards? The original Keith from the Rolling Stones? Wow, I'm proud of you for pulling that out of your ass. Improved style. Look, I'm a great improver. I think that he might have actually taken some liberties with his name from Keith Richards. I don't think that's impossible to think. It's making me feel like... If you still stuck with smoking weed long enough to enter the part where everyone had like a funny Twitter name pun thing where it wasn't just their name, Keith Richards for you is something I'd like to see. That is pretty funny. That is pretty good. Our man dances is well known for being a master of that game. Incredible, incredible work. Honestly, some of his name changes make me LOL. Yeah, Chief Keef has put out a lot. Where is he now? Does he live in L.A. and just kind of got fat and rides motorcycles? I think he lives in L.A., yeah. I think he lives in – I don't know where in L.A. Probably in the Valley. Definitely. Because he has a song called The Valley, and it's about living in the Valley and smoking a lot of trees in the Valley, and then girls come to see him in the Valley, et cetera. Great. One of my favorite songs of his. But he looks – Definitely older than you and I. Well, I don't think Chief Keef is taking care of himself. Chief Keef is the oldest-looking 25-year-old. He looks like he has, like, he's neck and neck with people who have, like, the reverse Benjamin Button, whatever that is. Like, people who are clinically diagnosed with a thing that makes them look older. He has matched them, and if not exceeded, just by drinking so much cough syrup.

Yeah, I was about to say, if you smoke enough lean, if you drink enough lean, bro, it can really do something to your face. He looks like a ghost. He looks like when, you know, you would watch Jackass and they would put on old people makeup. I bet he's got them fucking Robins or them Trues sagging with the Gucci belt. Boxers, his ethnic E-T-H-N-I-K boxer briefs showing. And this comes from a loving place. Chief Keefe, if you're listening. Yeah, no hate. No, that's the guy. Trust me, I'm a big fan. Jason wishes he could make his dread shake like yours. I just want to know what's in that mind of his. I don't think there's much except rapping. I think that's really it. I met Jason downtown yesterday in absolute hell, 100-degree weather in downtown LA to pick up some baked goods. Yeah, we went to the Grand Central Market foodie destination of Los Angeles, and Chris could not have been less into it for sure. It's awful. Watching you eat a bagel with cream cheese in 100-degree heat was pretty cool. You were straight-up disgusted watching me eat a bagel. You made me tip your OnlyFans while you were eating a bagel? This is a food. It's a Saturday morning. Yes, it was hot, but you know. Saturday morning, you meet up, grab a coffee with your friend, eat a bagel. That's a thing that millions of people do every day. Watching your friend kill himself with carbohydrates in the scalding heat is not something I enjoy. I'm sorry. Bro, I mean, how does it feel to watch me scarf these carbis yet be so shredded at the same time? That's got to do something to the psyche of yours where... You're not as shredded, yet you smell kelp noodles for your lunch. You don't even eat them. Oh, Jason, that's cute. And that's got to do a number on the mental. And I hope you're giving your therapist a real – getting your money's worth. I did, though, last night sample some of – I bought most of the stuff as gifts, but I had to sample some of the chocolate chess pie. Yeah, shout-outs to Nicole Rucker.

You can follow her on Instagram, fatandflower. She's the plug. That shit was absolutely fucking slapping. It is so good. And I hadn't had it in a while. I forgot because when she had her restaurant, I remember trying all the pies. This is so insane. But my God, is it good. It is so fucking good. So Chris eating a big old slice of chocolate pie. A-OK. Me eating a bagel with cream cheese. No, well, I don't think actually eating the bagel with cream cheese is disgusting. I think the whole environment was disgusting. You didn't like my wet little mouth crunching down on there. Maybe a little bit of that cream cheese squirts out the back. I watched a dollop of cream cheese hit a corona-infested seat next to Jason. I know. I know his ass would have licked that up if it wasn't COVID. You really think I would have licked a downtown? I would have dipped the bagel into that. Yes, you would have dipped the bagel back into the discarded cream cheese. I can't even talk about this. I'm actually feeling ill. This is making me sick. Look, I am not the classiest of eaters in the world, but I would never have some cream cheese drop onto a public Corona seat in downtown LA. Where even the flowers smell like human piss and then dip my corner of my bagel in and take a bite. That is a bridge too far, even for us. I don't even know about you anymore. Yeah, I mean, who would do something? Eating dairy and eating dairy in 100 degree heat is... Honestly, I felt like you were testing yourself. You ate dairy in 100 degree heat just like four hours after that. Bitch, it was 9 p.m. and I was inside in air conditioning. We were sitting outside under the sun. You were drenched with sweat. See, this is the type of podcasting that people really want to hear. Okay, we do have a guest today. We need to talk to our guest about Macroplates, Cat Williams, and I have 15 more minutes on Chief Keef. No problem. We need a tight 15 from you on Chief Keef. Our guest today is friend of the show, creator of the only newsletter I pay for, the new consumer. His name is Dan Frommer.

Long-time friend. He has been in the game for quite a while. He's much smarter than both of us, so I think we can get some answers for him on the future and why everyone is starting a newsletter. Yeah, he's a journalist that covers all things consumer, and he's a master of credit card points and flights and flight miles and all that stuff. Lots to cover. Him and his wife just moved here. Neither of them can drive. Like, don't have licenses, have never driven before. So that's very interesting to me. Okay. So he's also a cuck. Let's give him a jingle. Yeah, he's a cuck. Well, she's a cuck too. So who wins? All right, let's give him a call. Ladies is cucks too. Jason? Okay, let's call him. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you.

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That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Dan. Dan is cool. I get it. What's up, bro? You know, I don't think I've actually laughed ever as hard as the first time I saw Ali G. I think that is probably true for a lot of people and that shit was really funny. I have a contender. First time in the theater seeing Borat the film. Yes, that's true. I may have laughed harder. I remember seeing, I used to be obsessed with LAG, loved it. When I saw Borat in the theaters, I'll never forget this. A stranger sitting next to me grabbed my arm as a reflex without looking at me, asking permission, just with, you know, stream of consciousness grabs my arm because they just couldn't handle it anymore. I went to a screener for that movie. And who's the dude who it was like, you know, organized by MySpace or something like that? You talking about Tom? Back in the day. Who's the dude who's not David Copperfield who does that kind of shit? David Blaine? David Blaine. David Blaine was sitting right in front of me. It was weird. That sounds great. So I'm glad that all of this is on the pod. Not only my Borat story, but yours as well. uh yeah that was pretty cool that was like probably my second year in new york and it was like oh okay so i always find those screenings to be a little a little like either either like very cool and it's like all the who's who of people i want to rub elbows with or it's like six guys taking notes at 10 a.m yeah in town there's no in between on the screenings like you either concentrate too much on the movie or you can't concentrate at all the movie yeah this was not like a press screening for reviewers this was more of like a red carpet this was like a pre-influencer type thing for for like normal people i mean or like report non-industry press but this is trying to think about i tried to think about a time before influencers dance those screenings always happened one hour after the posted time because you know how these influencers be

Well, they also made me put my Palm Trio in like a Ziploc bag or something. Jesus Christ. You saw the original 1976 Borat? Yeah, that's right. Yes. Palm Trio. Dan, actually, I've been wondering this. Can you explain to me what – so when you go to see like overrated comedian Dave Chappelle, let's say, and they give you the bag to put your phone in. What is that called? How does it work? What do those things actually do? Because I don't understand it. You know what's funny? That's the last time that happened to me. It was like 2006. I have no idea. I think mostly they just don't want you to record stuff. But does it scramble the signal or something? I think it's literally just like an indexing or cataloging system where it's just a coat check for your phone. So it's a way that everyone gets like a little number or whatever. So when you go. at the end of it and retrieve your phone. It's just sitting there. Okay. I was in the impression that it scrambled the signal and rendered your phone useless. I mean, it might be a tamper-proof bag so they know that you haven't opened it so that you're not recording with it. But I don't know. Hilariously, I guess that was the peak of my access to stuff I wasn't supposed to have access to because I haven't had my phone. Where were you working then? I was at Forbes.com. That was my first job in New York. And what do those guys do? These days, whatever you want them to do. Was that the prime of the Forbes lists? It was probably right after. It was before the 30 under 30 blew up, but it was like Forbes lists probably had their peak influence. Like early 2000 or something like that before everything was online, before everyone was online. When you would actually use that list to have some real organic discovery. Yeah, and it was harder to dispute things. I've never worked on the master list, but they have a whole team that does. There's a lot of research that goes into it. Talk about a dream job.

Everybody's lying though, right? Like you can't really find out how much money is worth publicly. I mean if they're like a CEO of a public company, you can see how much stock they have in the company and that's where most of those – that's how every day someone can tabulate Jeff Bezos' network. That's at least how I do it. Yeah, totally. Same. But a lot of those are people whispering like this is how much we have, which is – Why and how Trump got to be on a lot of those lists because he would just say stuff, I guess. I don't know. I never worked on that list, so I don't want to make up. First of all, RIP Trump's bro. Yeah. His 71-year-old younger brother. Shit. I love that people just are like, damn, God took the wrong one. That's the only response I've seen to that guy dying today. You just reminded me I need to do my God Took the Wrong One and then have a picture of Chris Farley and then a picture of DJ Khaled. They're both unrelated, but they both could lose some LBs. I forgot about that. We workshopped that a little bit offline, so I'm glad that you remembered that because sometimes I forget the heat. It could be considered in poor taste to make fun of the dead on Twitter. Or literally wishing death upon someone. I don't know if poor taste exists anymore. You know what I mean? That's true. I think that's kind of out the window. I think we can let it spray. But the reason I was asking about the Forbes list too is because there was a big controversy this year because of the Jenners. Right. You know what I mean? For that same reason that you're saying. It's like they just told us and we believed it and then people were like, that's not true. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And sometimes. I don't remember the exact details, but it sounded like they were fabricated documents. A lot of the stuff is based on a camera phone picture of one page of a tax return, I would guess. I don't know. Well, Jason, to get me on the 30 under 30 list, Jason is already working on a fake birth certificate for me. That happens too, I bet.

It's actually 28, and I've been involved in countless successful startups, but I just like to keep it quiet. Last weekend, we filmed a birthday party for Chris where he blew out his 27 candles. That's your proof right there. Anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence. I'll post on my TikTok so all my young fans can see it, and then it'll kind of reverberate all the way to Forbes for their listing. Chris is one of those guys who's, I'm 27 again. He's one of those. Exactly, exactly, exactly. You know the type. Dan, how are you settling into L.A., bro? I told Jason you guys just moved here, and neither you or your wife has a driver's license, which is fucking insane. Yeah, we got to get into that. What is the closest? Have you found your dispensary yet, or are you still shopping around? I just got back from what I call the Eastside Yuppie Triathlon, which is run three miles to the Atwater Farmer's Market. Oh, shit. then shop in your sweaty running shirt, and then walk home uphill with tote bags. Damn, this is the TJ workout plan. This was my life every day for years when I lived in Gatwater. What did you cop at the Atwater Farmer's Market? First of all, that's the biggest scene on the east side. It's the new nightclub. It's the last place where cool people may exist. I was somewhat embarrassed. My second day living here, I ran into two people from Brooklyn I knew. Damn, nothing is worse than that. Fellow permanent transplants or just? I think so, yeah. Damn, just like Chris. Dispensary, I've been ordering online. Is that lame? I didn't know you were a puffer of the grass, Dan. Oh, really? Is that a big part of your personal brand? Depends on the year, but some years. Probably this year. What is your preferred method of nug delivery into your mental? Are you rolling up swishers? Do you have a six-footer? Or are you a dap king? So I'm also a guy who owned a Sony minidisc player in high school. So I'm going to let you guess.

I think that you probably have a charming little one-hitter pipe or maybe a little bit of a bubbler situation. Oh, interesting. But I think smart money is on the fact that you're a joint roller. Huh. Well, when I lived in Astoria, Queens by myself in a 200-square-foot studio, all I had was a one-hitter. And let me tell you, that's not good for the lungs. No. I agree. One-hitter is rough. Chris used to be a one-hitter daddy. Yeah. I mean, that's some New York shit. I don't think people use those outside of New York, really. Probably not. Now, you know, I have one of these Pax AeroPod things. That makes sense. I'm surprised. So you're not smoking the Chrome Hearts Runts just to the dome with a blunt wrap? If you had a bong, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, I'm also a Polish guy from Chicago. So I'm like, I'm one and done. Give me like a half hit on a PAX pod and I'm good for like two or three hours. The Polish not known for their marijuana tolerance? I don't know. I just made that up. But we'll see. I don't – what's up with PAX? Like those things were really thriving for a little while. I feel like they had their lunch eaten by big marijuana. It's possible. There's another one on my radar. I just saw it that has like – I don't know. It just looks a little chic-er. So I might check it out. There's one called Airgraft. That's a little more chic-looking. I think what happened to it was the PAX was the first vaporizer that used – real real tree and uh quote unquote flower and then everyone thought that was that was a a good thing until until all the oils and weed pens and vape pens and everything the technology kind of caught up and then you you didn't have to load it like every time you would use the packs you have to load it up with with flour that you have to grind in a grinder it's a whole mess yeah i had one of those too and i didn't really use it very often uh

I like the disposable pens and then the – this is the rechargeable pen thing. I don't know how bad it is for me. Is it worse than a joint? I don't know. Probably better, but I'm not sure. Does your life partner also smoke on that Reggie? No. So the other thing is – What's up, Chris? Jason said 10 terms for weed in the last one minute. Yeah, that's pretty good. I'm just impressed with his Cali bro. I feel like he's sitting at home with Dickie shorts and high socks on right now, getting these jokes off. Fucking kiss you, bro. He's got a checklist that he needs to get through. Like the thought of saying Reggie to you is just something that made me chuckle. I love it. I'm also kind of interested in the edible products out there. I'm often edible right now. Yeah. I actually did an interview with one of the founders of this brand called Rose. Yeah, we're familiar. The guy Scott from Squirrel? Yeah, exactly. I interviewed his co-founder and I did email with Scott a bit. I love that stuff. I have some of that now. Can you explain to people what that is? Even though I'm not consuming, I think it's a really interesting and very cool looking product. But when I see it... Even when it's explained to people, I think they might not understand what they're actually ingesting. Yeah, I guess the technical term is a Turkish delight, which I hadn't really eaten before. They're delicious. They're delicious. Yeah, it's not quite a gummy. It's less chewy than a gummy. It's like a cube. I mean, go on their Instagram or their website. It's a gummy that is gummified through natural. For natural processing and not artificial, like between a jam and a jelly, not to get squirrely on it. Yeah, exactly. It is between a jam and a jelly. That's a great way of putting it. And they say one of the reasons it's expensive is that it's real fruit. And it's fruit from like straight up real farms. Straight up. They have relationships with some really, really interesting farms that.

There was one that was a peach with oolong tea. This new one I have is like strawberry and olive oil and some other stuff. Yeah, that sounds good. We were actually just talking about Nicole Rucker who also – she did a collab flavor. Right. It's coming out this week, right? Yeah. So it's like a very ingredient chef-driven marijuana edible brand for those with a gourmet palate, much like the three of us. And it doesn't give off – Two of us. Exactly. It doesn't give off weird. I write about modern brands, so I study all the cannabis brands, and so many of them have a 2006 NFL logo vibe to them. The bar is set very low to stand out with great branding in the weed game. Yeah, like the barbed wire. And stuff like that. And then a lot of them are – Do not come for Cheetah Piss and their brand strategy is airtight. We're very loyal to Cheetah Piss and cookies on this podcast. So just know that before you go any further. All right. Good to know. And then a bunch of them are like pulling off traditional like stoner trope visuals and that kind of stuff. And Rose is neither of those. It just feels like a food brand almost. I think Rose and – It packs a punch. I was about to say, do you get twisted off the rosies? I mean, I, again, being a lightweight, once I took half of one and then got on the subway and went to, this was pre-core. I woke up in Connecticut. I went to some galleries in Chelsea and that was definitely a weird afternoon. I love that for you. I've kind of learned to pace myself now. So you're just a little five milligram daddy at this point. Probably like three to five, yeah. I like that packaging and I think the other one that I've seen that's good is Pure Beauty. Those are the sexiest packaging-wise that you want to buy it without knowing what's even in the package, which I think is it. It kind of makes me feel old growing up where there's just like cool, interesting branding and billion dollars worth of creative business going into selling weed. Yeah. A thing that was illegal not very long ago.

But Dan, do you think it's peaking or do you think we have like a lot of time still for people to make a lot of money? I think both. You know, what was interesting talking to the Rose guy is that it seems like some money has peaked in the wrong places perhaps. Like, you know, I haven't really dug too deep into the business fully of like the. big major growers and suppliers and infrastructure companies and that kind of stuff. But like when I talked to the Rose guy, you know, it did not sound like they were flourishing and just like printing money. You know, their cost basis is pretty high. They spent a lot of money on their fruit and their product. He was talking about like eventually having his own farm and maybe that would be more efficient. But it's a scale game. There's a lot of pricing pressure. I think people are I mean, I don't know. I don't base any of my decisions on price at all with this stuff. We don't look at tags, baby. I mean, it's just like once every couple of months I buy something. So who cares how much it is? But, well, he says having lived here for a month. We'll see. That's, I mean, real talk. speaking of dispensaries the place where i found this stuff which is actually to me the most like the classiest store i've been in is called i think sweet flower um in the arts district i think there's one of those on melrose as well and then there's one somewhere else i think sweet they're they're kind of like the blue bottle of dispensaries though bro yeah i'll put you and that's i use that pejoratively it's kind of what i'm into sorry We hate Blue Bottle on this podcast. None of our homies like Blue Bottle. If you can find me the Maru of dispensaries, I'm in. Jason might have that actually. He's the actual guy to ask. You know what? I can find you more than one. Okay, great. Let's do it. We'll chat offline. Well, actually, that brings us to Dan's newsletter, The New Consumer, which is the only newsletter I pay for.

Oh, man. Thank you. Same. Dan, what's up with all these fucking newsletters, bro? We've talked about it a few times on the podcast. Even Chris Black has one, for Christ's sake. I know. When it gets to me, you know it's fucking all the way trickled down. This shit is over. But why do you think they've had such an explosion during quarantine? And are people really going to pay for that many subscriptions? Do you think that's really feasible? And why is Substack ugly? Sorry, it's a three-part question. I'm going to start with number three, which is why I don't use Substack. Yeah, it's a little ugly. They're focused on other things. They're focused on getting all these people signed up. It has been crazy. I think there's a few things going on. One is that everyone had a blog five to ten years ago or a Tumblr or people were even really interested in posting on Instagram. There's just – the feeds are such a mess these days. Twitter is beyond addicting but also just like – everything on Twitter – Twitter is either a zero or you get 10,000 faves on a tweet and then you can't look at your mentions for four days. Feast or famine, don't talk about Nicki Minaj or BTS. Just a pro tip. Exactly. So I think I think that's part of it. Another part is that, you know, media companies have been doing a lot of layoffs. Journalists have not to say just journalists, but like people have found that, you know, I hate the term personal brand, but it's a real thing. People have people have found, especially in the media industry, that it's really, really it's really good to have. people following you directly and not just as part of the publication you write for. Totally. Especially if you are going to leave after a couple of years or if you're a freelancer and bounce around a lot, it's really important to have a direct relationship with your audience. For me, Twitter is probably the strongest place where that happens. I tweet a lot less than I used to. I guess for context, I've been a professional journalist on and off for 15 years.

I've worked at big places like Forbes and Vox Media and I've run my own sites before. My last job, I was the editor-in-chief of a tech site called Recode where we had super famous people working on our teams like Kara Swisher who had built up a personal brand. following millions over the years. So I think people have kind of grown up seeing how important it is to have that relationship. On the other hand, Twitter is just kind of a mess and is so driven by what matters that moment that it's a little hard to have a nuanced discussion on Twitter these days. Dan, this is why we pod. It's true. I mean, it's why we pod. It's why we newsletter too. You can write, you can write it. Is it true that a newsletter is like a podcast, but with, with written word instead? Yeah. It takes fucking 10 times longer to do it. I should just do a podcast. Damn. We got Dan rethinking his entire business structure in only half an hour. Everyone Dan, but yeah, I just print out the podcast. Then I wouldn't have to write the newsletter. Yeah, we got – But I see what you're saying though. You're saying – So that's part of it and like the – everyone reads their email. So you can have a newsletter audience in the thousands and those can be important people because they all check their email. It's easy. It's lightweight. It's – I think I find it easier to start than writing an article. Although my newsletter tends to look more like an article than other newsletters. But it's easy just to kind of start writing. And there's a bit of a fat element to it. Like I think probably the most common number of newsletters sent among all newsletters is one followed by two. And I, you know, embarrassingly, like I have a newsletter, another newsletter that I never send and I'm embarrassed about it because there's like over 3000 people on the list and I'm just sitting here on it. That's my airline points newsletter, which is kind of irrelevant these days. Yeah. So I was about to say, maybe not the right time.

The third part is you can charge for a newsletter. It's a very interesting kind of paywall because unlike a website where – I mean I'm about to cancel my Wall Street Journal subscription because just every time I'm on the site, it's logged me out and it's so annoying to keep having to log in. We hate trash UX. We hate that. Reset your password every single time. Shout out to Jacob Gallagher. What's good? Yeah. So your newsletter is just the – basically you're saying a newsletter is the easiest way to get the information. It's an easy way to set up a paywall though because it's easy to gate off who gets the newsletter and who doesn't. I mean people can forward it and I'm sure they do and I know they do. But – and that's fine to a degree. But it is easy to – because it's push-based. And until Google fucks with everyone with Gmail algorithms even more, it is pretty democratic. you know, email is either going to go through or it's not, it's not like trying to post a link on Facebook and good luck finding out whoever sees that. And they probably want you to pay you to pay them to juice it and that kind of stuff. So you can, you know, like in several cases, I know some people who've started real businesses off their newsletters. Um, that's not new either. Like again, when I worked at Forbes.com 15 years ago, There was a whole floor of people there writing investor newsletters that they probably charge thousands of dollars a year for. Damn. Because it's so specialized though because that's so specialized in like a high net worth consumer wants that. Bingo, yeah. Like if you're making or losing money or thinking you can make more money off of that kind of information, then it has a pretty high value. And then businesses are used to spending a lot of money for – analysis and stuff like Forrester and Gartner Research and that kind of stuff. So there's always been a professional content budget in companies. Yeah, well, I was going to ask if that's a big part of your customer base, subscription base. Is it a lot of corporate, for lack of a better term? Yeah, I think for sure. I mean, in terms of big corporate memberships, I only have two, and they're not big.

I probably shouldn't have said how many I have. Well, anyway, I have two. But I have a lot more people who are signed up who are who's definitely expensing it. And I think that's that's kind of where I am focusing my my business. So the new consumer is about how and why people spend their time and money. I kind of analyze the intersection of technology and consumer brands. And a lot of my readers are founders. investors, executives, either at direct-to-consumer brands or e-commerce companies or tech companies or venture capital firms. Or broke boys like Chris and I. Yeah, or guys with a podcast that love to make fun of the new pot-and-pan startup. Or even worse, a non-alcoholic. Alcohol. Oh, yeah. We got to get into that. We got to get into that. We'll talk about that in one second. I'll finish answering your question. So there's like two groups. There's people like me who are doing this as my career, as my job. This is my full-time job. It pays the rent. It's doing really well, and I really like doing it. It's the best job I've ever had. But I charge $200 a year, and again, I'm assuming that almost everybody is expensing it somehow or getting... you know, career value out of it or educational value, hopefully either a gig or, you know, I don't know, whatever, make some sort of professional connection or making money off of selling it for $100 a year. Yeah. Yeah. Retransmitting it. Which is what I do. Sorry about that. Thanks a lot. And then there's a bunch of these people who are kind of doing this for fun, who maybe set up like $4 a month or. $40 a year or something memberships. And, you know, we'll see. I don't know how those are going to do. I think that if you're, if you have a, you know, a hundred friends who want to pay you four bucks a month and maybe that pays for drinks for everyone once or twice a month when drinking is allowed or whatever, um, in public. Cool. I don't know how many of those are going to get tens of thousands of subscribers and like become a career for people.

But on the other hand, I do know people who have basically set themselves up as effectively artists and have set up membership programs in the $100 a year range and are making six figures a year off of that and really building up a multimedia program where they do newsletters and podcasts and books and that kind of stuff. My friend Craig just accidentally sold out of a book and generated almost $100,000 in revenue in two days. And a lot of it was driven through his membership program and selling memberships on top of that. So it's a really interesting model. I had been studying it for a couple of years. I had a couple of friends who were doing it. And I dig it. I think it really works well if you're the kind of person who can... who likes experimentation and figuring out what kind of stories people want to read, that they want to pay for, that they will get enough value out of that they'll want to remain a member. And, you know, every day is different. Some stuff works better than I thought. Some stuff works very poorly. But it's... We can relate to that. What do you think the right... recipe is for a successful newsletter like yours in terms of information versus the personality that you inject in your editorialization? I mean, I wouldn't say I figured it out necessarily. I think the most successful one is this guy, Ben Thompson, who writes Stratechery. What a name. He's basically an analyst. That sounds like some nerdy shit to me, Dan. It's very nerdy. And the most important nerds in the world are reading it. And paying for it. And paying for it. What's the cost looking like? What's the ticket looking like? He started off at $100. He bumped it to $120 this year. And back then, $100 was like, what? This guy wants $100 for a newsletter? And then he's making probably several million dollars a year now doing it. So strategy, tech.

Exactly. It's analysis. News is a commodity now. I can't compete with Bloomberg on information flow or just how quickly I get information out to people. They have thousands of employees. They're going to be much faster than me. I can tell you better than them, though, what it means and what's going to happen next in my field. And I can tell you what's interesting. They can't really do that. I can tell you what's important. They just kind of have to tell you everything. I can tell you what I think based on my expertise or time studying something. It has to be – I think it has to be a personal thing but not like check out my feet. Well, actually that might do well too. Shit. Sure. I mean – Here's a drawing of my feet. Are you talking about only bands? Maybe that would do well. Yeah. I do think that people – I do think there's a necessary amount of personality that has to be injected for people to care. You know what I mean? I think what you're saying like if it's straight analysis, that attracts a very different kind of person than like a little bit of an editorial take on things, which I mean I prefer the latter I think personally or would prefer to pay for the latter at least. Yeah. I mean I think that's what makes your newsletter really good too is that it's – It's the world through your lens and your curiosity. And I think a lot of people, you know, people aren't going to pay for a hundred of those. But if there's a couple people that they have been kind of following for, you know, a year or several years and appreciate their point of view and their perspective on things, I think people will pay for that. Or, you know, whether or not in money, in time and attention. Some of my stuff is free. I'm still figuring out what the right balance is between free and paid. Free and paid, yeah. Because the free stuff obviously goes a lot farther. But the idea is the free stuff will bring in the paid consumers. Yeah, exactly. Like having one episode of your podcast free, one episode on a Patreon paywall. Yep. Yeah, it's all an experiment. There's no like perfect.

plan that just works for everybody it you know you have to kind of figure it out i do think there's i think this thing has legs though i think i think it's going to be i don't i don't think everyone's going to quit the new york times and do this people i you know a lot of people still get a lot of benefit from working for a corporation and also health care you know i mean health care is a big part of it if if my wife lauren didn't have I don't think I'd be able to do this. So Dan, you're saying you're not willing to die? You ain't willing to die for your newsletter, Dan? That's unfortunate. I thought you were really about this, Dan. Because Dan, we would die for this shit. Yeah, we would die for this shit. I'm too old now. So you were talking about how you're not going to be flying anymore for any time soon, and you had a website. Or you had a newsletter that was dedicated to the point system and the mileage and everything like that. Yes, pointsparty.com. Don't plug. Don't plug. We'll give you an opportunity to plug. Okay, don't plug without our blessing. You know what I mean? No, so what do you think? I think that's like an exciting thing, similar to credit card points and all that stuff. Are there any other industries that you think might adopt that point system and take over now that you're never going to fly again? Right. Travel was good because it's a, um, it's a perishable good. Like if people are not in that seat or in that room, it goes, you know, no one, no one's saving anything you're, you know, yeah, no one has to clean it, but like, um, so, and so, so they could fill those seats with people on points and, you know, do better than if it were totally empty. And travel was just so aspirational. So it really made a lot of sense for the banks and credit card companies to kind of really focus on those relationships with travel companies, airlines and hotels and stuff. I don't know if there's another industry that is going to take over. I mean, right now, like if you have a Chase Sapphire, you can.

cash points in and use them for instacart groceries and and like i applaud that as a kind of improvised way to make timely something out of nothing during a time when people are hurting and like need literally need groceries um i don't know if that's you know i i would say like the the thing that's always been there it's just never been the best value is just cash back um and it was interesting to see apple focus on that with their credit card where it's like yeah we don't we don't fuck around with points here guys you get cash either one percent two percent or three percent cash back did you get the apple card i do have the apple card I feel like I can't be seen with that. I don't know. You know what? I stopped. I don't carry it around because it's so thick and so hard that it's actually. Whoa. Hey, whoa. It's affecting the way his go yard is looking. Yes. The Louis wallet can't handle another card. I understand. The girth on that card and the density. And the sheer whiteness of it in this climate. It's not. Yeah, it's actually the whiteness level of that card is problematic in 2020, I would say. I would actually – I mean it's the whitest credit card you could have both in literal color and in spirit. Yeah, they made it – they didn't think about that. They also – isn't it a partnership with Goldman Sachs? Oh, yeah. That's probably the only thing that Chris would like about it. I don't – I just – I'm an Apple product user for sure, but the cult of it has never done much for me. I'll always buy the products, but the interest that they get, I just – like the idea of watching guys talk about what computer is coming out next just doesn't really appeal to me. But I'm not a power user, so. Yeah. I mean, for me, I would just say that that card makes it hard to sit on my wallet, so I don't carry it around. Dan, first of all, you can't sit on your wallet, Dan. That will give you bad back problems. I think my spine has adjusted. I would guess that my left ass is like a half inch smaller than my right ass. I've been watching so many chiropractic videos on YouTube. I'm here. I could probably come fix you. So just let me know if it gets really bad. I mean, that's one of the many benefits of the quarantine.

Oh, I shouldn't say that. That's one of the sacrifices we're making here. We call them silver linings. Silver linings. You don't have to wear pants, and therefore you don't have to carry a wallet. You know what's really affected me negatively in this fucking quarantine? You might know this about me, Dan. Jason definitely does. I'm a diehard cash daddy. And I have actually – a lot of places are using – this little virus, quote-unquote, as a reason to stop taking cash. Yeah, QN on Chris wants to figure out a way that he can still carry many, many pieces of feces, COVID, and cocaine-laced paper that was made 40 to 50 years ago. I think nothing makes Chris happier than paying an out-of-network ATM fee. Am I right? Oh, actually, Dan, yes, in theory. But, you know, it's so funny you say that. Years ago, Friend of the show, Jake Davis, was like, I won't go to an ATM that is not my bank. I just made it a thing, and that's what I do. And I've actually stood by that in the last three to four years. Well, you're not living if you haven't been in an emergency where you don't have that option. Well, Jason, I've obviously been in an emergency. I bought drugs after midnight. I've used a fucking bodega ATM to take out $1,000 in increments of $100. It's not something I'm proud of. You know what I mean? No, you should be proud of. It's pretty cool. But I do – I mean I think those fees can get pretty astronomical, Dan. And as a guy who likes to waste money, I try to waste it smartly. Yeah, same. I try to waste it in places where it deeply benefits me or makes me feel really good. I'm guessing you never had this simple bank account, right? No, I've actually only – I've been with Bank of America for 10 years at least. I know it probably sucks, but everybody – banks are banks to me. I'm similar. I'm not going to say which bank I'm at, but it's – Wow. It must be nice. Okay, Elon. Yeah, what the fuck? Why won't you say what bank? Is it a credit union?

Have you ever had your SIM card swapped? I don't ever want to deal with that kind of crap again. Okay. Wow. Okay. All right. Fair enough. Can you at least hit us with the routing number? I think once I wrote a newsletter about Bitcoin and that's why someone tried to hack into my SIM card. Actually, while I have you on here, Expert Dan, for all of those websites that do password management, Yeah. Do you have any recommendations that stand head and shoulders above the rest? People always talk about one password. Yeah. Okay. I believe that's what we use thanks to James Ellis, my tech guru. Oh, yeah. I'm thinking about making the switch over to it. I've been getting some emails about people trying to sign into my shit in Madagascar. It's just me. It's just you. I have a WordPress that... The day WordPress launched, I signed up for travel.wordpress.com. So I have that subdomain. And I've never used it. Is that something that you can sell? I don't know if I can sell it. But someone tries to log into it every single day. Every day I get an email from a password reset. Someone's trying to get into it. That's amazing. Every single day is really small. I mean, I should have by now set up a filter so I just don't get those emails. Hey, no, let's live a little. Sometimes it's exciting to get an email. Reminder, I'm still alive. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, it's a classic pulse check. Brother, when I stop getting that email, something's wrong, okay? Dan, speaking of travel. Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Chris. No, no. I want to talk about travel more. Yeah, let's do that. I wanted to talk about Dan traveling to Los Angeles to start his new life in the not best, but better city. Well, Dan, yeah, because you guys kind of just pulled the trig. Yeah. Yeah, it was definitely somewhat of an impulse decision. Did you purchase a house without going inside of it? Maybe. I think that qualifies. Dan's on his big baller shit, Jason. That's why he can't give out his bank info. I love it. He's buying houses on site, like no site. He's like, all right, is it a house? Does it work? All right, I'll take it.

Dan sent his manager in on FaceTime and just like, all right, this looks good to me. Is the house currently on fire? No? All right. We'll take it. No, but someone set a trash fire outside this morning. I was like, why are there fire trucks here? That's not a good sign. I told you not to move to Highland Park, Dan. Yeah. I mean, how do you like it so far? It's great. I mean, we're in a very walkable spot here. Chris has been over for a socially distanced rooftop hang. It is interesting. It's fairly walkable. You know what Dan's relatively close to, Jason, is Taco Zone, which he wasn't familiar with. Oh, Dan, you eat meat, right? Of course. Yeah, get the Swadero tacos from Taco Zone if you haven't already. I'm going to have to check that out. I have not been there, no. That's not the one in the parking lot of the car wash. It's the parking lot of the grocery store at the Vons. Oh, Vons. Yeah, yeah. I haven't been there yet. Their logo is a flip on the iconic AutoZone logo. Oh, because right across the street from AutoZone? And it has the word zone in the name. Clearly a fan or a patron made it because it's very well done. That is genius. I'm sure a local hotshot graphic designer took a swipe at that. So you live in LA with your partner and neither of you can drive or possess a driver's license. Or ever have. However, she has now taken three lessons and is peer pressuring me to do the same. And you do not have any interest in driving? I do now. So I grew up in Chicago like two blocks from a 24-hour CTA, the train, the red line. And all my friends had cars and they could pick me up. So it was a lot easier to just not have to worry about drinking. So you were the hot friend of the group is what you're saying. Yeah, but they wanted to drive around. It worked out for everyone.

And then Uber happened. Driving this for the help. And I was living in New York. But then you'd wind up in rural Italy being the one guy who's like, oh, we're going to WhatsApp my cab driver and see if he can come find us. Dan just won a cop at Tesla, Jason. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, you're not going to get the Alfa Romeo stick shift to putter through. No, he's getting that. That new Tesla, the Y. That's what I could see, Dan. Is it Y on this side, Dan? I don't – we haven't figured that out yet. Lauren really wants – I guess it depends on just how well that newsletter is doing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, I think probably – Is it 3 Series good or is it – The cheap Tesla? Well, after this podcast launches, the subbie is about to be through the motherfucking roof. Yeah, let's get some new subs here. I love calling them subbies. All of our listeners love to do one thing and one thing only, and that's Splash Out on Substack. That's right. We don't know what car we're going to get, but I would say there's definitely some aesthetic considerations, so it probably won't be a Tesla. I don't know. The shade. I don't know. I care how the car looks, so I won't get a Tesla. hey the test is a good car right i think they look fine i you know i grew up in a honda accord toyota corolla situation so and then we had a minivan a dodge caravan so salt of the earth dan i love to hear it you know very kind of practical my mom drives a subaru now Damn, you're really white. Shit, okay. Dan, did you know that when you Google your name, when you type in Dan, F-R-O-M, Google then autofill corrects to Dan from Gossip Girl? Is that something that you knew about your SEO? I like it. How is your SEO? Your SEO is pretty good, right? It's not bad. I think there's like a guy who works for the government, but I'm pretty much the only one. Damn, must be nice.

Yeah. Did you get now, do you, do you get, do you see huge bumps after like really popular, like do you see like a correlation between like pot, like a newsletter opens and subscriptions? Not really. No, it's, it's more like it, two things drive new subscriptions. One is writing a great article. It's about something that people want to read about, but more importantly that people are talking about. That brings me to my next question, and I don't know if it's something that you necessarily want to talk about, but our good friend Allison Roman. I mean, a lot of people read that article. That drove some new memberships, but really not that many, and probably not people who have really stuck around. Yeah, I feel like that was so big that it's not the kind of people who even care. That was like... Literally 2,000 times more readers than normally read one of my articles. Jesus Christ. Or maybe more than that. Maybe 20,000 times. Interesting. Was that a public newsletter originally? Yes, I made that one free to read from the beginning. Yeah, so for our listeners who don't know, the article, the story where Roman caught the smoke and got canceled-ish was from an interview on Dan's newsletter. Yeah, that didn't feel great, to be honest. I liked having a substantive conversation with her about what she wanted to do with her career, but it was not fun for me by any means. Did people come for you? I got some nasty emails about some aspects of it, but not nearly what she had to deal with. She said all that stuff. I didn't – it wasn't my words. But it wasn't fun to be the venue for that. No, of course not. No, of course not. But I think it's interesting to like – to be on your side of that while you're doing your job and being a reporter and you don't even – that stuff doesn't jump out at you at the time because you're like doing a job. You know what I mean? Especially doing it alone. It's a little hard to –

Yeah, I'll be more paranoid in the future. Well, yeah, I was going to say it might be something, you know, how does that affect the way you think about what you have just written before you hit that send button? Right. And I always have been very, very, very paranoid about that when it's my writing. But because this was someone else's words, I was more focused on making sure they were accurate than necessarily like overanalyzing what the response would be. And again, because most of my stuff is for a small audience of executives and professionals, that's usually not really even part of my line of thinking. But so something like that, that doesn't actually drive a lot of business. What's more helpful is... going on a popular podcast or being written about in another newsletter or something like that. So there's – That makes sense. I mean I think that the – Go ahead. No, I just think that all the stuff – I mean I think what you're talking about seems niche in some ways but also seems like that's where business is heading in such a general sense that it's going to grow organically I think. Totally, yeah. And if anything, like I worry I'm not niche enough. Like I need to be even – Yeah, I can see that. I know what you mean. Yeah, doing this show will put a little hair on your chest in the eyes of your fans, and you'll get niched up. Well, the same way that podcasters will kind of help cross-pollinate each other's shows to the rising tide to raise all ships, do newsletter writers do the same thing to feature each other? I think so, yeah. Fucking nerds. Never. Never. Hell no. Fuck them. Fuck them other newsletters. Fuck you. It's like the blog roll of the current era. Forgot about the word blog roll. Truly a terrible word. But I do think that's what the newsletters are. I think newsletters are blogs. And we talked about this on the last episode with Kyle.

He had some thoughts on it too, but I do think that's the reality. It's just blogs that you pay for and you only hear the voices you want to hear. And I'm like both for it and miss blogs at the same time. You know what I mean? But I guess that it's all about moderation. It's just the same thing as a blog that is delivered on your doorstep like a newspaper used to be. And you don't have to click on it. You don't have to remember to find it. It's just already sitting there when you wake up. Yeah, I mean, and that's to answer one of your earlier questions. That's why I don't use Substack. I do like having control over how it looks. And for my site, I do wish I had 50% more time than I do to put into the... graphical elements of it and you know maybe even higher illustrators sometimes but yeah you know i i picked the fonts on my site they're you know obscure fonts from new zealand i picked the i designed my own logo and and it is nice it is nice and clean actually get you a man who can do it all jason you know what i'm saying that's damn frommer right here this motherfucker's cranking out the content he's making the artwork like it's a one-man newspaper That's what drew me to this. He records his own TikToks, the whole thing. His own Reels is really popping from what I've heard. Let's talk about Reels actually, Dan. It doesn't sound like you love Reels. Reels being Instagram's answer to a TikTok. You wrote about that. I have yet to create a Reel and I don't think it's something that I will ever do. Do you think that there is a way that we can use reels to our advantage, personally speaking, Chris and I, on our Instagram presence? Can you dance without moving side to side at all? That's the whole thing, right? It's like, how do I dance in a 9 by 16 aspect ratio? I think that's the focus. I can't isolate my hips as well as Chris can, but yeah, I can stay within that 16 by 9.

Right. It's actually perfect for tall people. That's a good point. How bad is it going to fail, Dan? Do you give it a year or less? Well, it's interesting how they've kind of made IGTV somewhat useful, even though it is a failure, by letting you archive your live streams on there or whatever. I mean, you can see why they had to try it, right? Yeah, of course. Yeah, definitely. Although it is still a departure from the early – I don't know, the first like half decade of Instagram where they're like, yeah, we're not adding any new features. Fuck you guys. And then they added Snapchat. And then they added Snapchat, which worked so well actually because – I mean the stories are the only thing that I really post on. Like my grid is not really popping. Yeah, it's a great format and it really worked well for the Instagram network. Whereas – The whole thing about TikTok is that the network doesn't matter at all. It's just the algorithm. There are enough people on Instagram that if some of these videos become popular, they can get people to watch them. I don't care for the style or the format. It's not for me. I know it's for a lot of people. I try not to let that cloud my judgment. It's going to go away. If it doesn't work, they're going to bury it, or they might discontinue it. You've got to try a bunch of stuff. That's the whole point of running a big product. Also, not something I really use, but I understand why it's so popular. Okay. I think it's time for Digital Dan to branch out a little bit. I mean what I've said before is like if YouTube existed when I was in high school, I would either be a YouTuber with millions of fans or I'd be in jail. You got two roads and two roads only. Do you subscribe to YouTube? Do you pay for YouTube premium? No, man. Oh, man. That is like every time too they want you to. Honestly, the only reason to pay for it is for the videos to play when it's not.

When the screen is closed. That's the only reason to pay for it. It's crazy. But that's different than the YouTube TV, or is it the same? It's different, yeah. Okay. Because my life partner's parents have YouTube TV on their Samsung TV at home, and that's it, no cable. And using it is a little weird. I mean, the first rule of Google is they have to have 14 versions of the same product with different names. There are currently nine or ten different YouTube premium options probably. And HBO, HBO Go, HBO Max. Yeah, exactly. So I – no, I don't pay for that. You're right, Chris. One of my favorite things is actually to find like a two-hour live concert on YouTube and listen to it while I'm on a plane. Although I guess there's no flying anymore. It's good background music. You want to hear Archers of Loaf live from the empty bottle in 1996. There's like a three-hour Father John Misty concert that whenever I fly to LA, I play. Wow, I would do that too if I was trying to fall asleep as well. Hey, don't come for FJM. The first two records are classics. He's fallen off, but the first two records are outstanding. Where is he? What has he been up to? He's like, all these guys are doing cover songs. I guess that's what you can do when you're... He's somewhere in Los Feliz. having sex with a girl right now is what father. Yeah. He's having, he's having sex with someone closely related to fame and smoking a cigarette. That's what I, that's what I would say. I don't, I mean, also he's done, but he, he's written and produced and stuff. He does it. I think, I think guys like that also, it's like, he's got enough money. You know what I mean? It'll, he'll, he'll work when it comes to him. Maybe. Oh no. I think, I think father, I think at the, he was doing, he was like pretty, he was billed pretty high at like a lot of festivals. For those years. We saw him at the Hollywood Bowl, which was one of the most surprisingly awesome venues and experiences. Oh, I love the Bowl. Why so surprised? Because if that thing were in New York, it would be so shitty. It would be really dingy. The escalators wouldn't work. The food would suck. That's true. And we show up and we're like, whoa, this place is nice. Is that where we saw Casey Musgrave, Jason? We saw her at the Greek.

Another. We were going to go see Morrissey at the Hollywood Bowl, but then your tickets didn't work. Yeah, I got sold fake tickets to Morrissey at the Hollywood Bowl. We heard him start playing a song from outside. That happened to me once. I bought fake hold steady tickets on eBay. Or Craigslist. Craigslist. Even worse. I would have paid $1,000 each for me and Jason to go to that show at that stage. I would have totally paid whatever because I was already there. I couldn't deal. That wasn't dark. And now he's canceled, so I can't see him again. Oh, yeah. He's always canceled, though. I know. I know. But it's gotten extra bad, I think. Dan, you seem to have a love of Japan. Yeah. What do you think those guys are doing over there that is working out COVID-wise? It seems like they seem to be decently business back to normal over there. Yeah, it seems like it. I think they were way ahead of us on the masks. I don't know the actual answer to this question, but I'm going to make up an answer, which is I think they actually have a competent leadership there and they listen to them. I'm guessing that's a lot of it. I think they also... I wasn't there, so I can't tell you this, but it seems like they were less obsessed with the hygiene theater of like – Hygiene theater is a very sick term. Of what we've been doing with pouring bleach on – Is that a phrase that you have coined personally or no? No, no. I've read it, but I love it. I mean it comes from security theater of the airplane. Got it. Jason is still dipping his bananas in alcohol before he eats them. I told him to probably stop that, but he seems to. He's really holding on. I've grown accustomed to the flavor at this point, and you know that. I know. It's a flavor issue. I see now. It's better. It kind of brings some of the complexities to life. I understand. The sanitizer on the banana, it's pretty good. No, I think early on they were saying don't.

you know, don't do stuff where there's a lot of talking and in closed spaces. And it turns out that that's actually far more of a vector than, you know, your delivery, your UPS guy handing off a poisonous package to you. So I think that's, I think that's what it is. Cause like, that's a super dense city with, you know, on the, on the subway, you're nuts to butts the whole time. But if people are wearing masks and not talking, then. It works, I guess. Despite being nuts to butts. Yeah. I mean, I think people have also been staying home and working from home as well. When, what month, what year do you think, you know, I want you to speculate when you're going to be back in Japan? I mean, the first question is like, when are they going to let us back? I'm not sure about that. I was hoping to go this year. I don't think that's going to happen. Probably next year. I love going in the fall, like the late fall, early winter, because it's still very mild there. And they just do Christmas really well in Tokyo. It's like a shopping holiday there, so it's kind of fun to go there. God, do not get me started. Don't try to turn me on. Christmas in Tokyo, that does seem chic, especially if you don't like your family. Exactly. So it's great. No, actually, but everything shuts down. We were there. for Christmas once and everything shut down. So that was less great. I like going like early December. Um, it's really, really awesome there. Or like the week after Thanksgiving or the early spring too, when there's a cherry, you know, with Japan, there's no wrong time to go. Yeah. No, no. Right now is the wrong time to go. Do not go in July or August. It's like 110% humidity and 95 degrees. Sounds like Dan's on the take from Big Japan, Jason. I don't know about you. The Board of Tourism is deep into those pockets. Yeah. He sounds like he's taking a page out of our hero Tyler Brule's book. I need to do that. I need to get some airline or tourist bureau to just bring me on board.

Start showing a little titty on the gram and maybe we can put some calls in for you. But for now, you're not giving us much to work with, sweetie. Exactly. Dan, thank you for joining us. Anytime. Thank you. I'm a big fan of the show, so this was fun. We're a big fan of the newsletter. Guys, go subscribe to The New Consumer if you have any interest in the way business works, especially I think the listeners. I think the listeners of this podcast actually are very adept and understand what you're talking about. I think that stuff is definitely in line with our listeners. It's worth every penny. They can follow you on Twitter and Instagram at FromDome. FromDome. damn he does smoke weed exactly yeah yeah yeah um that was my e-world nickname in 1995 jesus that's where that's honestly where that belongs as the handle for the rest of your adult life that's too vintage for even even i is it time to move on dan welcome no definitely always comes right from the fromdome bro exactly uh dan welcome to la uh thank you drivers of los angeles beware Yeah, if you need me to teach you how to drive, just let me know. Jason's well-versed. Yeah, we can pick up a parking lot in Glendale. Let's do it. Dan, we'll see you soon. Thanks again. Thank you. Bye, Dan.