400. - Issy Wood

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Jason Stewart is with me. It's a beautiful 75-degree fall day in Atlanta. The leaves are falling. I'm amped up. I've just had a coffee. I did Barry's Boot Camp this morning. Business as usual over there, huh? That's right. Country Chris is back on his BS. How are you feeling, TJ? Not bad. Not bad at all. I had a nice little meal yesterday in Beverly Hills. I went to a place called Matu. With a friend of the show, Emily Oberg. That sounds like a hot chick, but it's actually a restaurant? So you think Matu is the name of a hot chick? I like that, Chris. I mean, not a hot chick that would want to talk to me, but yeah. Well, that goes kind of without saying. Okay, I understand. So what is the... Now, this is a beef forward. So I'll set this... Basically, it's a restaurant... in beverly hills like right in the heart of beverly hills you know like i'm in whatever two minutes away from the new era one you know it's right on right in the zone and it's a wagyu beef restaurant so i'm i i hear wagyu beef and i hear beverly hills and then The next logical step is cha-ching because a Wagyu steak costs like $200 at the store. I hope Emily Oberg accepts Cash App. Were you able to kind of come up with your portion when the meal was done? I was able to come up. We were like, do you want the receipt, Emily, to write it off? And she's like, it only has three digits in it. Yeah, this meal was actually pretty cheap, guys. So it was basically like.

Okay, so this is a restaurant that sells pretty affordable Wagyu beef, which is a flag because it's known for costing hundreds of dollars. If you get the good stuff, it's in Beverly Hills. Everything is leading up to being overpriced, but you can get a four-course meal for $70 a person or something like that, which is remarkably affordable. But is the marbling... off the charts, or is the marbling looking weak? It wasn't the best marbled Wagyu that's ever touched these big brown lips, but it was pretty good. In terms of a 12-ounce Wagyu ribeye steak, it was cooked perfectly. It's a little salt on the side. I'm wondering, what is the catch? Why is this happening? I don't understand it, and I found out very quickly why. why all this was happening and what the catch was, it's owned by Sugarfish. Ah, the kings of affordable luxury in the food space. Yeah. So did your Wagyu come in kind of like a white box, or was it on a plate? It was plated, but it's plated for efficiency a little bit more than... fun and flavor. So they just kind of, it's like a little, and here's your next class. And you know, you get, it's, it's much worse with sushi, which is why I think sugarfish is terrible. Uh, because that's like a raw food that's, you know, hopefully was just sliced seconds ago. If it's good sushi and sugarfish, you know, they just sliced it. Days ago. And it's been sitting in the back next to the dishwasher. That is not true. I'm exaggerating. I'm exaggerating. That is not true. It's not alive is my problem. And it was better with the beef. But still, I felt hoodwinked having to give the sugar fish people my money. How much was the valet? Valet was 13. Valet people are the only ones who are keeping the cash system alive, really. It's a matter of time until they're fucked. And also at the Matu place, and speaking of efficiency,

You hand them the card, and then they bring you back a receipt. No signature, no tipping required. It's just like boom, and it's done. 18% added to it. That's nice. Which is nice. They didn't do 20. So there's some parts of it that I was really into, but that's not my style of eating, unfortunately. I went to explore some new stuff in Atlanta as well. And I would love to talk to you about it if you don't mind. Yeah, I mean, how fluffy were the biscuits? What's going on? I wish it was a biscuit story, goddammit. But no, so friend of the show, Ben Gibbard, was in town with Death Cab for Cutie, his band. So Al and I went to the show, and he's like, oh, it's at the Roxy. You guys, if you want to bring your whole family, please do. We don't have any friends here. It's no big deal. I got you. So no problem. The Roxy, oh, I remember going to the Roxy. It's right there in Buckhead, centrally located. No problem. Day of the show, I'm just checking some stuff out, getting prepared for our night on the town. Checking dark sky and stuff like that. Exactly. I find out that the Coca-Cola Roxy has now moved to the suburbs, and it's located directly next to the Braves Baseball Stadium. Bummer. In a development they call The Battery, that is basically a fake New York live-work. So there are people in this town that pay to live in an apartment. that you can see a baseball stadium from. Oh, yeah. And you can, like, walk there to the baseball stadium. So the Coca-Cola Roxy is in that same development. So I got there, and it's like, you know, parking garage nightmare. It's like you got to walk past all these fucking brew pubs and, like, corny-ass stores. And then we get to the venue. Venue is nice size, you know, 3,500. Not bad, Benny boy. It feels like a fucking Disney. Like, everything is so new. I was just going to say, this sounds exactly like every venue in Orange County that I grew up going to. You go to the House of Blues for a show, and it's in Disneyland, basically. Yeah, no, I mean, that House of Blues is literally... Like, you park in a mall parking lot and go. That's what this is, which in Atlanta I hadn't experienced before, and I was just put off by the whole experience, but I wanted to tell Ben, we were talking about Ben's running, which we talked about on the show. He's like...

My coach and I have been working because I'm doing this race, and if I understood it correctly, and I believe I did, he told me that he's going to run 100 miles around a one-mile gravel track. So that is, he's going to go in a circle 100 times, and I said, bro, are you good? And he said, no, I'm not. So they didn't clean up the Balenciaga runway yet, and he's just going to go tear ass on that thing for 100 laps? He's doing 100 laps, and this is just, and I'm like, are you, and he's talking to me about, like, it was actually pretty interesting. He's talking about hydration, and he's like, I've been eating a lot of gummy bears. Okay, same. It's kind of the perfect food when you're, because it's like, it doesn't fill you up too much but it's got sugar which keeps you satiated and like the like jelly format is like the perfect thing to ingest look i mean if anyone i mean ben give what do you think his body fat percentage is it's very low for it's 10 something like that it's very low for a guy with that many fucking telecasters i'll tell you that to hear a guy who who has 10 body fat saying you know gummy bears are the perfect food That gives a lot of people hope out there listening right now. You're right. You're right. They're like, damn, bro. He's an ultra marathon runner, and he said it's the perfect food. My thoughts exactly. This guy's a winner. You have to, of course, get a nice Haribo grass-fed. You can't do the cheap shit. No, of course not. He's probably importing from Japan. He's probably importing him straight from Japan. That's crazy, bro. We were backstage talking, and I'm like, damn, bro, you got two buses. And I look over, and I'm like, I'm sorry, big dog. You got two tractor trailers? And then they go on stage and they have this very elaborate, nice light show. So it was worth it all, the drive to Cobb County. But it made me look at Haribo in a whole new light. That's what I'm saying. That's really the major takeaway. He sounded great, but, you know. All things considered, he sounded great. I think the thought of running 100 miles on a gravel track, I mean, one mile 100 times over and over again,

It's almost like this sadistic mental kind of torturous situation. It's by design to be even more like a different kind of horny suffering compared to a normal just like, oh, I'm just going to run this ultra marathon. But at least the scenery changes, and they're like, nope. you're in you're in solitary it's like going to the hole when you know it's cool i'm really into the mental challenge of all like i'm very impressed by the whole thing like obviously it's psycho but also like it really is a feat of the human condition i think you're impressed by it but i don't know if you are personally into it i'm not going to do it no no no i'm not going to do it but i but i am impressed by any athletic feat of that of that measure by a person who's that's not their job you know what i'm saying like this is like his hobby well it's not his job but his his hobby is also staying alive, you know? And a person like him who is a psycho, this is how he has to stay alive. And I'm not talking about in terms of like... getting his cholesterol down because he's jogging more i mean and like if he doesn't run a hundred times on a gravel pit yeah that's right things can go things can go sideways quickly things can go sideways bro um well that that's my but i've got many more i've got a lot of rocking to do this week so i'm kind of trying to save up my energy you know yeah me too i'm i'm fucking djing tonight that's right i'm rocking the crowd with friend of the show one of uh one of the guests of Of all the How Long Gone guests, probably in the bottom 5% of liking us as people. DJ Benji B and Them Jeans mixing it up tonight. DJ Them Jeans and DJ Benji B back to back tonight at the Astro Hotel opening. Thanks to our friends at Purple PR. Jason, I just want to ask. Who kind of negotiated this deal for you? Who kind of was your representative during this whole procedure? It was one of the guys over at the booking agency. I don't know. One of the kids over there. He knows someone. I don't know. I forgot his name. Do you remember his name? I don't. I try not to remember his name. He's a rock star, dude. He's been killing it lately. I forgot his name, though. He's a damn rock star. But I'm upset that I'm missing this, not only because I'm a hard-nosed negotiator, but also because I think that you have to rinse Benji B. You have to absolutely destroy him.

for you to walk out of there with your chest high, and I think that's the goal. Yeah, I was just thinking, like, if Benji didn't like me when we podcasted for an hour, just wait until, you know, he hears the five tracks that I play right before he goes on. At 11 where he's about to mix in some tasteful world music house grooves, and I'm playing. Zed featuring Fox's Clarity. No, you're going to come through. Or I'm playing Calvin Harris Summer. No, no, no. I've already hit Lil Yachty, and I am going to get his Poland. I'm getting the full version for you to drop tonight. It's going to be a worldwide exclusive. BBC Radio 1 exclusive. That's the new Yachty song where he sounds... What does he sound? He sounds like a... He sounds like Grimes fishing out? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Grimes fishing out on autotune somehow all at the same time. But I want you... I need you and Benji. I need a full report. I need to have a man on the inside who's like a DJ expert to let me know kind of... A tale of the tape is what they call that. Yeah, if you want to set up a kind of a hidden cam style versus... That would be great for me. But I'm sure Benji is bringing the heat all the way to Hollywood and Vine tonight. But he'll be no match for hometown Titan, TJ, them jeans. Sure, he's a famous DJ, whatever, playing for decades, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like you just said, hometown advantage is what I've got. He doesn't know what's going to hit him. And if he thinks he can just come play a little YG and that's going to spook you, he's fucking wrong. This ain't the do-over, Queen. TJ ain't going to be shaking in his Timbs tonight if you play a little YG. A little Ice Cube. You think you're cute? He'll probably go old school. You know what I mean? Because he's an older guy. We do have a guest today. All the way from London. He's probably younger than us. Izzy Wood is an artist, a figurative painter, and a musician as well. Her newest LP, My Body, Your Choice, incredible title, is out.

is out now um she had a great new york times profile from friend of the show joe coscarelli uh a few months back and she's we have a lot of friends in common with her the art is bomb too the art is bomb i really like the art i'm looking to commission I think I'd like to commission something from her, kind of a portrait of you in her style, I think would be very cool. Yeah, well, maybe once, if our Ethereum goes back up, you might be able to afford it. But right now, I don't know. I definitely won't be able to afford it. But let's cross the fucking pond and have a chat with her right now. Banging. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and they're just easy but still put together. I don't look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world.

writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen.

You sound great. Caitlin told me you have a microphone as well as headphones, so you're the most prepared guest we've ever had. Well, because I record all my music in my kitchen, and I'm just in my kitchen. Okay, so you're a true bedroom artist. You're using your Le Creuset kind of to do your drum patterns? The Le Creuset is near me when I'm for kind of moral support. I have a whole set. So Izzy, you said you record all of your music in your kitchen as well as your podcast appearances. Have you done anything acoustically to that kitchen to make it sound better like a recording studio, or is it just going in regular kitchen style? No, it's just normal. I've slowly upgraded. The story of my life is just like... waiting for men to tell me when to upgrade my music equipment. Sure. Damn, you sound like all my ex-girlfriends. Yeah. Well, you know, men love to talk about music equipment. It's one of their favorites. Even if they're not musical in any way, they somehow know which interface to get. Hey, no, I would like to... I would like to combat that. I hate equipment, and I prefer to be a Luddite, but I know I'm an outlier. No, Chris, she said straight men. Oh, yeah, no, the gays have never advised me on anything. But, yeah, no, I've more been slowly upgrading my equipment rather than the room that it's in. which is mainly a kitchen and not a music studio. Are you sick in the kitchen as well as a baker or any other? culinary arts or weirdly i cooked for um caitlin phillips who you know last night she's in town because she's um she's fallen really hard for an englishman and you know i was i was catching that on her instagram story i didn't want to confront her i didn't want to confront her so i'm glad we're doing it on the air i think that's yeah i think that is i think that's actually much more tasteful i agree and i think a british a british person can read another british person in a way that an american never can um and so i was

semi-tasked with sussing him out a little bit. But I cooked for a bunch of my inner circle here and then Caitlin and a couple of other Americans. And I realized I'm a cook, not a baker. Okay. Yeah, I followed you on Instagram and I was seeing some of your handiwork, but the camera work, I wasn't able to get a beauty shot to kind of understand the menu. So if you could just walk us through, that'd be great. I can just take you... Well, what I've done is... No. Have you done with us before? Some had dined with me before, but no, I did. I went, like, full kind of autumn is closing in in England, and I made chicken pie. I made, like, a vegetarian tart for the one vegetarian because I love him. I did a kohlrabi salad with capers, which is inspired by the best salad ever, which is at St. John's Restaurant in London. And it's the only reason I bought a mandolin, but it was money well spent. Sure. Love that restaurant. I did this Swedish dish that's called Janssen's Temptation, which is kind of like... in in b minor yeah yeah that does sound like more of a symphony uh maybe it's a symphony in the mouth though how did it go it's i mean i think it's pretty bomb i usually don't tell anyone that it has anchovies in it because i never know how people feel about that um so but it's a it's like a potato gratin milk cream and then anchovies are like the the secret to it tasting amazing okay look when you when you list out when you list out the ingredients it does sound a little bit like a tummy ache waiting to happen but i think that maybe your presentation would would lead me to still have a bite i would advise you to try it before you judge this dish um but uh yeah no my dad my dad used to make it a lot when we were growing up and so um i'm almost over familiar with making it and it's a great side only for winter months it's too much for summer but um yeah it's like of course decidedly getting to be winter here and what was the now did you do a wine pairing was this a cocktail kind of situation well i'm i'm sober so i have like a strict byob policy um

I did a Diet Coke pairing. Okay. Great, great. Which in the 2022 Diet Coke is drinking very well, actually, at the moment. So you're saying it opens up nicely when you kind of pour it over ice? Yeah, it's more like it's like Drano for the palate. So you just kind of start from fresh with every bite. The palate isn't cleansed. It's eviscerated. The palate is eviscerated. So you are a Diet Coke drinker. You will admit that. Oh, yeah. Okay. Have you thought that the formula of Diet Coke has changed over the years, or do you think it's the same the entire time? Because I feel like it changes and gets worse as time progresses. Do you think? Yeah. Maybe. I mean, in the U.S., it always tastes better, and I don't know if that's like a farm-to-table feeling that I have about it being made in the country. It's like a local. delicacy, but I mean, in Europe, the thing they call Coca-Cola light is garbage, in my opinion, and should be taken immediately from the Coca-Cola umbrella. It's rare that you hear that the American version of a food item is better, so that makes me feel good. Unfortunately, it's Diet Coke. Well, it just has to be pure poison, and then, of course, the Americans do do it better. Sure, sure, sure, sure. I'm also sober, but I always feel inclined to spend kind of not a large amount of money but substantial amount on bringing wine and it make i kind of get off on that even though i'm not going to drink it but i think that your policy sounds better well i can't i i it's unclear after six years but i don't love the idea of testing myself with a bottle of wine in the house um i see oh it's it's more it's byob but it's always it's also like T-Y-O-B, which is like, take your own booze, because I don't want to keep it in the house. But yeah, I could understand wanting the proximity of almost LARPing as someone who buys and drinks wine, of just being close to the alcohol in that way. But I would have drunk fucking windscreen wiper cleaner. I lost my sophisticated taste in the blink of an eye.

I can't really be trusted. I don't necessarily know anything about it either, but I like the experience of going to the store. Because the employees at the store want you to come in with an idea of what you want, and then they want to kind of destroy that idea and blow your third eye open. And when I tell them, I don't care, I don't drink. They really have a hard time. It kind of puts them on their ass a little bit, and they don't know how to handle me. Yeah. And I like that feeling because they're dorks. Well, I mean, that sounds like visiting an art gallery, that experience. That's true. That's true. That's true. Well, I mean, try getting sober in the UK where people take it as a personal slight when you get sober. They say, are you okay? Yeah. I was going to – yeah, I would say that your culture is more drinking-centric for sure. extraordinary. I think it's the only way that the average Brit can access his or her emotions or like can get really earnest and you know there are certain things that you talk about your family only when you're all wasted. It's not a perfect plan but it works. Yeah I mean my getting sober was to my family considered saying no to any kind of deep conversation which I'm more than willing to have because you know I did rehab and I saw a manner of repressed brits um open up what is the culture now this the sober culture there because it's it's very you know it's having a uh because i'm actually i'm looking at about six years myself on we're on the similar timeline congratulations thank you and same to you but i think that the the you know i here it's quite cool now like it's a trend i would say to like not drink uh and and even to go as far as to be sober which i feel like is something that would never be able to take hold in the UK? Well, I think there's not drinking, and then there's being a sober person, and being in... Sure, sure, sure. Which are two kind of identities. I think British people are suspicious of all of them. I think they can maybe understand it more if they personally have seen you in hell with alcohol, and it's very, very clear that even by British standards, you can't...

you you go too far which is a very high bar which is a very high bar and then i think people are slightly more understanding but they do you know my my oldest sort of british friends like they don't know what to do with me after like 6 p.m they're like we can't really get we i'm more than happy to go to a pub but they i don't think they think it's fun if i'm yeah if i'm sat there with like a lime soda yeah that's not i understand i i find pubs to be i just don't it's not my scene you know i i prefer to sit in like a like a high-end hotel lobby while people drink that feels comfortable to me um i think the kind of the dive bar pub kind of situation is really unappealing unless you're like on coke yeah you know i don't really understand i don't really have i don't really have those romantic feelings about those kind of places i mean i do just from growing up here that's like yeah that's like where i first made out with someone you know it's just a it's a thing but now i yeah i'm i either don't go or i have to develop some kind of passion for darts So there's just something to do so that I'm not, or I like man the jukebox or something. It would be cool if you got very good at darts. That's like a nice idea. It would be kind of great. Another string for my bow. Izzy, you mentioned family members and people needing alcohol to open up, and you seem like a pretty open book. Is that something that wasn't the case prior to your sobriety? Seems like you're down for a deep chat. Oh my God, only. only exclusively but did that have you always been that way or did it take um you know sobriety and transcendental meditation to get there um that did help and then i was i've been in therapy since age 11 i want to say because of a crazy eating disorder that is a recurring uh character in my life and so through total necessity i was put in therapy in a way that no one else in my family had ever been before and so i i feel like i learned a different language to them quite but i do my family a disservice they're not they're not the worst of the families in the uk that i've met in terms of like drinking in order to function or drinking in order to talk sure both my grand my both my grandmas are extremely extremely good at having a deep conversation within within reason but um yeah being in therapy and going to rehab and having to like having just non-negotiable demons

which I guess a couple of generations ago in my family would have been called like a case of the blues. A case of the doldrums. Or he wasn't quite right and then he killed himself. Yeah. Oh, well. So there is, yeah, there is definitely, there's some issues to be sorted out. But, you know, my parents are both like medical doctors, physicians. And so there's a very, very, very sort of hard line between. physical and mental health and they think they're better than Any psychiatrist. Western medicine is the way and your Eastern practices, we care not for them kind of thing? Oh, yeah. I mean, if you're talking about TM, that came way later. But it does feel, I mean, it's delicious to rebel in that way. Interesting, because I always thought doctors made fun of dentists. You know what I mean? Because that's like fake shit. But they also, you're saying they also, the kind of therapist mental health side of things. Like, that's cute for you guys, but, you know, we save lives over here. Is that the attitude? I mean, my experience of having doctor parents is they were always like remarkably unimpressed by any ailment that I could bring to them, like short of internal bleeding. They just weren't really interested. Doctors, I mean, doctors in the UK, I guess my parents both work for the NHS, which is like a socialist project, which I worry is crumbling. They're retiring at probably the right time because it's not looking good. It's looking very American. So slowly and slowly. OK, calm down. OK, calm down. OK, we we love paying for our health care out of pocket. That's kind of our culture. And, you know, I'm not I'm not going to let you attack me going bankrupt. I break my arm. Yeah. Well, I mean, what I'm saying is we're not really going to have a leg to stand on for much longer. But my parents work for this socialist project. And so they already thought that they were better than any private doctors in the UK. They thought that was garbage. And then mental health was for people who are... Pussies? Pussies, maybe bored and have done a bit too much looking inwards because they don't have a lot going on in their life. Dentists, there was never much hatred towards dentists. My dad had an affair with our dentist. So cool. Well, that kind of explains that. Yeah, but it...

There were attacks on her character, but not on her profession. And I continued to see her well into 2016. Really? Oh, yeah. She definitely wasn't my mom's dentist after that, but, um, all my brothers, but I kept, I kept seeing her cause she, um, the work was just too good. The bitch could clean a tooth. So well, she, she knew how to, she knew how to handle my, she knew all my history and I was, but then I, I went to her in 2016 and she told me that she'd voted for Brexit and how thrilled she was that we'd left the European union. And I was like, I can't see this bitch. So you're saying that was the straw that broke the camel's back. That is where I draw the line. Ruin my family. Fine. You can have as much extra. marital sex with my dad as you want, but if you want to leave the EU, then we can't work together. Did your parents' relationships survive this adultery, or did they divorce afterwards? Absolutely not. The writing was on the wall for a really long time, to the point where I noticed it as a kid. My dad has a problem. And that's where therapy could really come in handy, I think. But does he consider himself to be not only above it, but maybe like too old for it? Is that a possibility as well? Yeah, I guess being too old and above it go hand in hand. It's not how things were done in his day kind of thing. I mean, I say his day, like he's like 60 years old. He's not. What is now, who are you closer with, your mother or your father? God, this is my issue with deep chats. I have not spoken to my father for as long as I've been sober. So it's close, but I am closer with my mom. It's close. Yeah, almost a draw. But is this something that you are choosing or he is choosing, or is this something that's kind of happened? There wasn't anything. really dramatic like i i wish i could point to some yeah enormous betrayal on either of our parts but it just i think we i i became an adult and we're like i don't think we like hanging out as much as we used to and you know i something about being a daughter and feeling like you play second fiddle to the many women in this dude's life i just i just started seeing him as a dude like he was just a

You grew up. He was just some gentleman who really loves foraging for mushrooms and also women. So your dad is a known, he's a stick man. He chases skirts, as they say. He's what you would call in the UK a top shagger. A top shagger. Yeah. He's after the clunge. Okay. Yeah, he's fiending for minge. A poon hound in the minge department. Okay. And mushrooms as well. That's correct. Mushrooms as well. Have you picked up the foraging bug also? No. I'm more interested in the foraging within. That's what we do. That's what this podcast is all about. We're just foraging the insides. It's the foraging within. You kind of have to. Yeah, this is where we're at as a society. young people younger than us i know you're younger than jason and i but like even younger younger are i think they are doing too much inward gazing i believe that is a is a thing that can happen i think that could be true it's inward gazing with a view to what like if it's a view to become a um a borderline personality disorder influencer on on instagram then that is probably not i just mean that i think there's like a a Just like a self-indulgence, kind of, of always doing that and having the luxury of doing that. Whereas I don't know if other people... Dad? Yeah. Is that you? I want to reconnect. After all this time? I want to reconnect. Because looking inside is free. It's not a luxury. No, but I think that it's turned into a little bit of a, like, I can't do anything else but that. you know, preoccupation is the issue, not the actual thing itself. Yeah, and that's bad in any venture. Yeah, for sure. You're looking so inward that you forget to brush your teeth or return phone calls and things like that. I would never forget to post, obviously, or my clients would kind of not pay me, so that's the problem. Or even worse. If you're posting instead of brushing your teeth, that's a clear cry for help. In terms of mental health looking inward, deep,

gazing on the inside and and sobriety where do you stand or how do you feel about like ketamine therapy um i mean it does it has this weird uh there's some like venn diagram of like the help i could get from ketamine versus like potential of uh liking it too much because i'm a sober person yeah i've had a couple of friends who've done dmt therapy and i understand i mean it's difficult because like ketamine was such a big part of my and like especially my art school days and it to me it will always be like a recreational drug it would be hard to um see it differently yeah it's different over there in the uk i guess where ketamine just comes out of the faucet it sure does yeah i am always very suspicious of the um you know where i where i start to harbor fantasies of um going to south america and doing peyote or ayahuasca or um you know i can feel my brain um It's being seduced by the idea of a quick fix or like a one-time thing. Right. The more boring answer is that it's just ongoing maintenance. It's like meditating twice a day, every day, whether I want to or not in a kind of, if it ain't broke, don't fix it attitude. Like that's good enough for me right now. That and a couple of antidepressants. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it scares me a little bit. The, the ketamine. I mean, cause I'm, I worry it would almost feel familiar from when I did ketamine in a, dorm toilet and no one could reach me for what I assume was two hours and I couldn't let myself out I was too scared and also like if a doctor you know people say like oh it's the that means but a physician is present I'm like but that's just my parents that's going to make everything far worse I'd be watching them to see if they're rolling my eyes about what I'm talking about, and that's deeply triggering in not a therapeutic way. You paint a very good but very dark picture with us. Maybe if I got a little more desperate, I would look into it. I'm fascinated by all that stuff I love. I think medicine is...

incredibly limited the way it is right now and i'm i think i'm i'm fascinated with it to an extent but if you live in los angeles it becomes a little bit of an eye roll oh god because of what because of what it's become and i think that like i mean i've talked to some friends that and they they use these words like i've never heard before like i'm going to a circle tonight oh what's that like what the fuck are you what the fuck are you talking about better be a drum circle i really hope i wish it would be better it's it's no no no it's it's literally like you know you like people are doing like ayahuasca you know led by a you know quote unquote doctor you know in like a house in beverly hills we're gonna lay around diplo's foyer yeah and play some ambient tunes on the cdjs that sounds awful well come come up to come up to topanga anytime and we can we can do it but no i mean uh i think that that kind of stuff it feels extremely like los angeles centric even though i'm sure it happens other places but i think the casualness of it and the way that it sucks in seemingly very normal people yeah who are searching and searching and searching in a way that it's almost like they're looking for religion or something like that magnetic draw feels that's been la for decades though you know yeah that's the beauty of it the draw in the circle is in your friend being able to say oh i'm actually just going to a circle tonight yeah um and there's some uh i don't that feels like appealing to be able to tell someone like i'm i'm just oh from 7 p.m i'm going to be reaching a higher plane so yeah if you text me i may not reply 7 p.m i'm going to be sweating and throwing up on a blanket yeah and just don't don't try to text yeah i guess it's not that chic to say like oh i'm tonight i can't hang out i'm going to go roll around on the ground and do hard drugs at my friend's house you can't really just say that it's more grown up it's more grown up to pay yes to go somewhere yes yeah i love paying it makes you feel good when you pay but you do you do hear i remember because i'm such a i'm a big fan of gabor mate um and he's a he's uh an amazing like addiction therapist a doctor blah blah blah um and he is a big advocate of psychedelic experiences when very carefully done and i remember him saying on some podcast or other while i was painting like that there are some of these doctor shaman type guys who like

sexually abuse people while they're in the lowest point of their trip And it's like, you have to be really careful with that stuff. I'm not surprised by that at all. It's the dark arts. No, I know. I'm not surprised either, but it's shocking. No, no, it's not great. But I think that's like the yoga. That's like the Bikram thing, you know, and all that stuff came out. That's like the largest scale of that, I feel like, because yoga is the most approachable of something like that that people used to think was really weird, and now it's obviously crossed over fully. Yeah, I'm wearing a shirt, actually, right? I thought in case we were videoing, I'm wearing a shirt that says, fuck yoga on it okay so you're not a yoga person is that mean you're against yoga or that's a style of yoga called fuck yoga it's neither um that i think in the first sex in the city movie um samantha's much younger actor boyfriend smith jared is um for no reason in one scene wearing a great t-shirt that says fuck yoga on it and it's never mentioned But he's just wearing it and he's, like, packing to go and shoot some film or something. And I was like, I'm going to make that shirt. So I made it. It's one of my favorite shirts. I didn't take you for a big Sex and the City fan, especially their film releases, which I love to hear. Oh, my God, are you kidding? I love it. Like, after I've painted all day and I've, like, tortured myself over music for two hours, like, all I want to do is just numb my brain. And what better? Analgesic. than especially the movies because they are so awful. Yeah, whenever I'm on an airplane. Spectacularly bad. I watch the second one where they go to the Middle East. Abu Dhabi. Yeah, the Abu Dhabi. Every airplane ride, if I see it on there, it's like a thing I just have to do. The phrase that Samantha says when she meets a hot guy in Abu Dhabi and she says, Lawrence of my labia. It will never leave my mind. That's good writing right there. That's what Hollywood's all about. That's poetic. It was a different time. I applaud whoever, whether it was Darren Starr or not. Like, I don't, who cares? I just, that line's never going to leave me, even if I wanted to. Now, did you watch, did you watch the reboot? Of course. On HBO? Of course. Okay, and did you have strong feelings? I, it didn't have quite the numbing effect that I wanted. It was almost too sad.

there were too many emotions in it for me yeah it was uh it felt like sad from a like new york isn't how it used to be and it felt from like our bodies aren't what they used to be and our relationships aren't what they used to be and i mean realistic but that's not why i go to the sex in the city franchise you know yeah it's not what i'm looking for when i go there yeah no i'm good don't do this to me carrie god damn it please don't don't make me feel don't make me prepare for menopause don't do this i don't want to talk about egg freezing at all i want to turn that part of my brain off for 45 minutes i don't want to talk about egg freezing i don't want to see all of the disastrous injectables and plastic surgery that you've all had like it charlotte i think charlotte looks the worst charlotte it's a lot it's a lot i really want to know like is are the like if if someone in your life even if they're the breadwinner or famous or powerful, begins to use injectables on that level, is there truly no one that will step in and tell you what's going on? Is that really where these women are at? Is that where this many people are in their lives, where everyone's afraid of them and won't tell them to stop? I don't know. I think it's like a very potent mix of your injectables being... a regular you know maintenance that's become so entrenched in your life like doing a grocery shop or something and then it's also like the face aging around the injectables yeah and it's this like you can just see like the battle of like a tree growing out of the asphalt time taking its natural toll as it's want to do and then um and then these desperate dermatological attempts to stop stop the tide and I mean, I feel like it's the fucking dermatologist's responsibility to be like, are you sure you want this? But they're never going to do that. Well, I think that that stuff is so accessible and kind of considered light. Like you said, it's like getting a car wash. Right, right. Those guys are like, you're going to buy a pack of tin today? It's like a subscription. Yeah, it's cash. Yeah, you want a subscription. Yeah, no, there's an art collector I met for the first time last year who he's both a...

dermatologist in that he administers injectables and also a psychiatrist and i was like is that not a contradiction in terms like what do you do when someone like like me for instance like shows up with like crippling body dysmorphia and is like i want a different face like what do you um what do you say to that part you'd be like do you mandate therapy what or do you just take the money and get the syringes out i'm gonna say both is what my guess is. Yeah, I guess your doctor's oaths cancel each other out for both of your practices, I guess. Yeah, I don't know. It's a hell of a... Maybe you take some finder's fee from the shrink that you refer them to. I don't know how your system works. Did he buy any work or are you guys just friends? He bought a work. last year and then just kind of from the pandemic he lives in new york and i only met him for the first time earlier earlier in the year but he was still petrified of covid at that point and so it was like wearing a mask and taking a bite of food then wearing a mask and taking a bite of food it was one of those things but i know a couple of a couple of women i know trade paintings for botox from him wow wow who is it I don't know who's getting it. I'm not at liberty to say. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I don't know who's getting the better deal there. I have no idea. I guess it depends on the artist. Yeah. That's crazy. I love that. I love that, too. That's a really modern thing. Well, it's modern, but it's also time-honored. You hear of these old Renaissance guys trading work for a doctor to cure them of syphilis. Mark Rothko's dentist had an insane collection of Rothko's. it's it's the trade the trade with for services is a thing i i try not to do that ever yeah i feel like once you rise in in success and popularity the amount of things objects that you can trade or services that you can trade you know if a painting costs a half a million dollars it's like yeah we're going to trade for a house you know like what do you do well yeah And some of my early, not even trades, but gifts of paintings from five or six years ago are coming back to haunt me via auctions. The painting that sold for half a million dollars, I'm assuming you didn't make a half a million dollars on that. No, of course not. I mean, if it sells in a UK auction house, you get 1% royalty, which is better than nothing, but it's not.

It's not great. Yeah, I was just going to say, I didn't even know they gave you that. No, a friend, a very mentally unwell friend from a while ago, she sold, she'd collected birthday cards I'd given her and sold three of them. Wow. No way. She got like 26 grand for each one. And I was like, who is buying something that says Happy Birthday Lauren on the back? So these are cards, they're paintings. They're not like cards from Tesco. They're on like, they're on this like canvas board, which is really thin. Okay. They were like, paintings but they don't look like my work anymore at all and i just uh what a bittersweet feeling to be like wow this this fucking bitch took my birthday card and made whatever you know 75 grand on that that sucks but also like yeah wow i'm popping i'm like i'm torn i'm torn i'm like i can't believe you walked into phillips off the street and put these works in there um but also get that bag did you did you confront her or did you laugh? I haven't been in touch with her for a really long time. I don't know if she even has a phone. I really think she walked into the auction house and she used to be in the art world, so she kind of knows how things work, but I have no idea. I wish her well because I really hope that money goes towards something good. Some injectables. Yeah, maybe some injectables. I've never heard a story like that, but I feel like as things... As a star rises, this happens to people in all sorts of fields. You've seen Pawn Stars, Chris. Yeah, I've seen Pawn Stars. That's true. It's a new frontier for me. It's kind of new. It only started happening. The auction thing at all only started happening this time last year. How do you usually find out about that? Does someone tell you? Do you see it? How do you usually find out about that? I mean, the auction house... And usually, I don't know if it's out of their heart or whether they, yeah, well, they, I don't know whether it's legally or just like tastefully. They just let the gallery know. They were like, we're so excited to have this work coming up in our evening sale of 20th century, whatever. And then sometimes there was a work that I made in literally school. And they said, we can't verify the signature on the back of the canvas. And they showed a photo and it was like.

some other guy's name that said like lewis on the back and i was like but that's because when you're at art school you fucking share canvases if someone doesn't need something you take it and you paint on it because you're broke and so yeah this was made in school and now you're selling it and maybe that's a sign that you that you shouldn't have it in your evening sale but they went they asked for a certificate of authenticity so i was like yeah i i've never i've never tried out just like disowning a work and saying like i've never seen this in my life yeah yeah what the hell are you talking about that ain't my name i've never seen this shit once no sir that baby don't look like me yeah exactly i mean i hope i really kind of hope some fakes come up at some point, I feel like that would be the cherry on top of my ego. It's like people just faking my work. That's an incredible sign of accomplishment. Now, do you personally trade with friends? Are you trying to amass a collection as well, or are you output only? Yeah, and I buy. Honestly, since I started making money, I'll buy something if I really like it and if I can get it, especially from the other artists on my London Gallery's roster. Because there are a few whose work I'm just crazy about and I've known them for years. I hate to think in financial terms, but if you trade with someone really young or someone who you think is awful at art and they want to trade, I'm like, do I then do it just because it's a financial decision? I mean, I think it's a case-by-case basis, you know? Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I still I still give a lot of gifts. I've tried to temper it, but I'll definitely like a birthday or wedding gift or something. I mean, I've always heard these great stories about people that were just kind of around that were like middling artists that you might know. you know yeah and i'm like why is this person so fucking rich and then you that you find out it's like oh yeah i just traded i was with all these these guys i was with them at the time and now i i have more money than i would have ever made off of selling my own work right place right time yeah yeah why i mean people are part of the new frontier of of my work being some i don't know hyped

entity or something in our very very small world which is the art world but um people are resorting to all kinds of weird subterfuge to get access to the work and i would not put it past some people to pretend to be friends with me for like three and a half years yeah i've befriended for as an investment in my future yeah i mean where do things have happened i don't know i've had i've had like people you know trying to Trying to date me. And then they say, actually, my brother's been asking for work for a while. Can you make sure the gallery saw his email? Damn. It's hard. Beat popping sucks. I tell you what, there's some downsides to this stuff. You can't trust anybody. Yeah. I can trust the people who were there before. There you go. But I'm very, I mean, I'm always suspicious of, British people are always very suspicious of flattery. Really? In general. And so if you, yeah. Oh, yeah. I guess it makes sense. The word cunt is a term of endearment here. British people are freaks, Jason. You know that. The complimentary way of talking of, oh, you look so good, or you did so well, it's just not really a... It'll make a British person tense up, usually. Do you watch any of the Housewives franchise of programs, or is that not in your wheelhouse? I watched the first couple of seasons of The Real Housewives of New York. know me who you know yes of course turn me on to salt lake city but i found it when that woman got um arrested by the fbi for yes for some kind of money laundering, I was like, this is actually maybe too depressing. I only bring it up because the biggest takeaway for me is that every single episode, every single season, no matter what's happening, when they see each other for the first time, all they do is tell each other how good they look. Oh, yeah. No matter how much they hate each other, which I find to be, like, it makes me laugh every time. It's so funny. It's amazing. And then watching the smile die down within like 15 seconds as soon as they turn away. Yeah, exactly. Everybody knows what the deal is, but they all continue to participate in the same way. I mean, the effort has been put in, but often they look kind of like, they all seem quite manic. I don't know if it's like the eye lift because their eyes look really surprised all the time.

and they just look sort of crazed. I don't know, maybe it's Adderall or something. I'm going to guess all of the above. Izzy, I wanted to talk about the music world as well as the art world. It seems like you've had more financial success in the art world than the music world. Is that correct to say? I've had zero financial success in the music world. Okay, so you've been able to be quite successful in the art world, music world. is a very tough industry for pretty much everyone, even people who... I think I've lost money from the music. I'm just hoping I break even. Well, for somebody who has your brain and your unique way of looking at the world, if it was up to you to change the music industry... you know aside from just having you run it instead of old white guys you know what what are some ways oh i shouldn't run it let the whites have what they want thank you thank you for that thank you for that we appreciate that um well they i mean it's like they i think in terms of the the way the guys who run the music industry or the at least like some of the ones you hear about or the ones i've met or whatever the way like what they consider a successful music industry i mean they're job well done. If it's to harvest as much money and to give as little as possible, then that is well done. You caught on to us. All I would stipulate is just do that artist gallery split. Make it 50-50 with the label. I like the optimism of that. Right, right, right. So there's no advances that you have to repay back for 10 years. It's just like... We'll make this money. I'll pay for this. You pay for that. We split this 50-50. Yeah, you split everything. With art, if a really expensive sculpture needs to get made, you normally split 50-50 production costs with your gallery. Just everything. Everything divided down the middle. I don't know why that's so radical. Yeah, I guess the art world is sort of the only one I can think of offhand that still sort of adheres to those pretty simple...

steadfast ways of doing business right i mean it's so similar we don't even do contracts there's something about having lawyers like sort of negotiate this piece of paper that sort of ties you to someone that gives either party permission to behave pretty heinously because you've got this piece of paper it's like the ultimate nft it's like it's this thing but it doesn't really exist and I think with with art like and I am bearing in mind that I've had like an amazing experience the more I hear about it the more grateful I feel for my particular path that I've cut through it but yeah there's like any relationship like you just every day kind of ask both people ask themselves like do you still want to be in this relationship work or otherwise you know 50 50 is hopefully implies that most people are trying to put in equal amounts of effort and it shifts slightly. But, um, but yeah, without, without the contracts, it's really, it's like the ultimate consent. Yeah. The corrects itself. It should. And then, and you know, and if you decide to part ways, it's like, it's nothing more than a heart to heart and then you can, and then you can part ways. I mean, I guess there were drawbacks to that as well, but you know, it was also pretty easy for me to leave my music label. It's like, It took eight months to negotiate joining. Eight months? That's usually, yeah. Normally, if they're not making a lot of money off of you and you really want to leave, it's usually pretty easy to leave. That's usually how it goes. I think the email my lawyer got was, we thought you'd never ask. Eight months is honestly like that. I mean, it was also mid, it was like early pandemic. Everyone was like slow. I mean, people had less, people had more free time than ever. So it's kind of shocking. No one wanted to work. And this was with Mark Ronson, correct? Yeah, this was with his label, Zellig, which was an imprint of Sony, which I found out.

when it said Sony on the contract. And not the guy from Amy Winehouse? It did not say guy from Amy Winehouse. The idea of an imprint is obviously like it's a little bit cooler, but you still have the budget to market and record like you would if you were on a major. Sure, but you also have the Sony legal team panicking about being sued for any kind of... like visual copyright infringement, which I found out the hard way with. Were you doing a lot of stealing? I made with a, with a friend who's actually the sister of my London gallerist, but that's not important. Um, we made, she does CGI stuff and we made a music video for this song debt very early on, like the first release, I think. And it was, uh, a CGI game of monopoly played by like sad, completely naked men. And I, my face was on all of the pieces. It was really good. Okay. And we bought it to Mark, Sony, Zelleck, whatever, Zony. That's what we started calling it after a while. Zony? Zony. And they were like, we're going to get sued by Hasbro. This is not going to work. This lawsuit could be enormous. And I was reading all of... I got into reading Hasbro. copyright literature because i was so desperate to like do something yeah literature it was like i downloaded like a 670 page pdf on my phone of like hasbro hasbro how litigious hasbro have been like uh uh historically and um and in the end sony sony's legal team they were like it's not worth it and i'm sorry we're not going to pay for this music video even though we said we would so they have a lot more to lose than you do so it's not so fun anymore yeah i don't i didn't understand that world i mean i i like from coming from the art world like you can you can put any logo on anything in any show and it's never a conversation like it's considered different i think legally it's considered different which is

Confusing, of course, especially if you're not a lawyer. No, and so I mean, I don't know whether that conversation or that friction would have happened with an indie label, but I became very aware of the drawbacks of this major label way of doing things. And so I released the video myself and paid for it myself. Thank God I could do that, otherwise I would have been destitute. I wonder, actually, I wonder if an indie label is like, we're just going to look the other way, or if they're even more paranoid because they have more to lose, almost. It was just so alien to me, even having the conversations of Mark texting me, like, we've got some of the finest legal minds working on this case. And you're just like, why? I'm like, oh, thank God, the finest. Thank God they are the finest legal minds. You're like, bro, this is a CGI video of Monopoly. It's two minutes and 30 seconds. Like, I'm all the pieces. It's my head on a shoe. It's my head on a dog. It's my head on a, you know, I'm on all the money. I'm on all the money and all of the property names are the song lyrics to the song. I was so proud of that music video. Well, at least it saw the light of day. I mean, that's the bottom line. That's the bottom line. And now that we're talking about it, thousands of people will watch it tomorrow. So that's pretty cool. I really hope they do it. We're very popular in Australia and some other countries as well. So just something to think about. I don't really want Australians watching. No, that's a fine country, another member of the Commonwealth. I love it. I love it. Did you lose any money directly when the Queen died, or were you okay? No, Caitlin lost some of her sanity, though, because one story that she'd placed got, they cleared everything out, and they pushed the story forward. allegedly it could have ruined everything i don't really know how but caitlin loves it caitlin's dramatic and that's what's fun about her oh i love it i love it i'm dramatic too i guess so i but i don't i'm not dramatic about things i don't understand which is like what what is how how the financial times would jeopardize those times we we literally went through we literally went through the same thing with her so i feel a kinship to you uh right now that i wasn't expecting i i just talked to some friends that lost significant amount of money

From the Queen's death. Like, because they had to, like... How? They had to, like, close shop. Because it's, like... Not that it was illegal to be open, but it was, like, in poor taste, I guess. Oh. And it was, like... Oh, yeah. This isn't worth it to, like... to maybe receive backlash that we can't recover from. How many local British shopkeepers are you friends with, Chris? Jason, my name rings bells over there. I have quite a lot of acquaintances that keep local shops in different areas of town, so I can kind of check in. Yeah, that's how I know you. We go to the same... Chippy. You do the same circle. The flower market. We all transcend together. Exactly. We transcend together. Exactly. Yeah, how many days did you take a break from your art after the Queen passed? Oh, I was in New York. My show in New York opened that day, so I was like... no one cared in new york no we didn't i was delighted to be away it's the one thing as a as a full-blown angophile it's a one thing i've never understood is the the royal family and the fascination i don't understand it either people like your peers there are people that care um i know very very few people very very very few young people who give any kind of a fuck like i think it's part of a different time what the word colonialism is like thrown around now amongst young people which it maybe wasn't in my grandparents' generation. But it's also confusing because to be someone who doesn't approve of or care about the royals is you're called a Republican, which is extremely confusing to me. Yes, it is. Because I vote in the U.S. And so I'm like, I am a Republican, but not in North Carolina where I vote. I knew I liked you. Why do you vote in North Carolina? Because my dad got some kind of surgical residency. At Duke University Hospital, because they pay doctors so obscenely well over there. He was thrilled to take it, and my mom got knocked up in 1993, and I got born on American soil. God bless you. See, I feel it. Yeah, I knew. I have both passports. I pay taxes. I do the whole thing. Is it worth it? Breeze through border control. From Duke to the Duke.

That's the next album. So we always knew that you were a bit of a southern girl at the end of the day, yeah? Yeah, I mean, we were there for, I think, probably 12 weeks after my birth. So, yeah, you could barely tell the accent anymore. I was going to ask what your kind of favorite barbecue style of North Carolina was. I don't know anything about barbecue. I had some grilled oysters at the Minetta Tavern a couple of weeks ago, and I was told that they are also big in North Carolina. I go on Street View every now and then and look at the address where I was born or the first place I ever lived and expect to feel something, but I feel nothing. I was actually – we were celebrating – because I'm at my parents' house right now, and we were celebrating my dad's birthday last night. They were trying to kind of talk about memories of childhood, and I have zero. Like, I barely remember high school, and I'm only 40 years old, and I had no trauma. I'm not blocking anything. I had an idyllic childhood to the point where I have guilt about it, and I don't know why I can't remember it or feel anything about it. I don't know why I'm in this. Are you asking me? We're sort of looking for you to sort of diagnose him, if you don't mind. Do you have strong memories of what life was like in high school and elementary school and things like that? Yeah. I mean, I didn't finish high school, sadly, but I remember why I didn't finish high school very well. Sure. I remember that. I remember that as well. No, Chris, I'm the same way as you, and I've never wondered why either. I blame it on the drug use. Chris, when does your memory start, as it were? What's the furthest back you can go and get nostalgic? like last year yeah i mean i wish yeah i wish i unfortunately i think it all kind of starts with like when i began to get into like punk and hardcore and like like so like early middle school is is when i really am like oh yeah i remember going to my friend's house and hearing this thing or i remember going here and here but kind of before that like in elementary school good luck so when it got cool when life got cool

From then on. I don't require these memories anymore. I'm different now. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I don't know if life got cool. I definitely thought it did. You just needed like a medium. My friend Jed said he sat next to a girl at dinner last week who referred to her mother as an artist without a medium. And I love that. And maybe this is your childhood. Yeah. You were just an artist without a medium. I was. I just had a lot of bad seven-inch records and I was kind of finding myself still. I'm obsessed with that phrase because it's... i don't know it tickles me it's really funny calling your mom that of all things anyway because that means that you yourself the child is is the work of art oh the medium yeah you are the medium yeah to be abused mentally and physically that's right um i wanted you you mentioned body dysmorphia earlier and we don't need to get into the details of it but um What are your thoughts on fellow musician and artiste Grimes and her sort of using that as a medium of art herself, perhaps? I don't really spend very long thinking about it. Grimes. Are you saying she addresses it in her music or when she's appearing as herself? I guess just sort of how Kanye West now is using the fashion world as his canvas to do whatever trickery in 5D chess or whatever he thinks he's doing. One could wager or argue that Grimes is using body manipulation and plastic surgery. um not so much because she wants to look a certain way but more so like as a weird kind of oh i see yeah yeah art medium or like you know shining a mirror onto ourselves or whatever yeah i mean i guess she's already had she's always had kind of an alien thing going um she was very ethereal looking always before i guess i'm more i'm more interested in the maybe even the the real housewives version of body dysmorphia which is like this uh

can't talk about it getting loads of surgery definitely not well um but telling someone that they look really great and when you say you're into that do you mean for amusement no i think i just i relate to that more than being like i want to become an alien and um and uh manipulate my but you know i yeah i feel like grimes in doing that presumably she has more control over her body or some agency that she's able to say oh i can manipulate x y and z but i i identify more with like i don't know these women who are in just like a quiet prison of never really being sure how you look but needing knowing that something needs fixing at all times and not really being sure what wow that's that sums it up quite well actually i don't know something that i feel like a lot of people are suffering from every day i'm spinning out right now because i think you just yeah you just cracked my muffin Your personal muffin? Is that even a phrase? That's a phrase that I've learned recently. Cracking. You've just cracked my muffin. I guess you just cracked my scone for listening across the pond. But I love that turn of phrase, Chris. Well done. I learned it from one of the guys on the Joe Budden podcast. I'm out. Sorry to tell you that, Jason. But yeah, I just feel like that's a... Not knowing what is wrong but wanting to fix it is absolutely what I'm doing when I'm destroying myself with exercise multiple times a day. Oh, and that's a real thing. I feel like I've been through every iteration of punishing the body, knowingly or unknowingly. If you punish it hard enough, then you don't have to really think. Of course, of course. Or you don't have to have a body for a minute. you can just like i don't know you can just be like a head in a jar no i i mean i deal with that whole thing relatively privately i'm like very candid in talking about it and write about it a lot on my silly little blog um but i wherever possible i would i hate to be photographed and i really don't like my face being out there

Because I just torture myself over it. But you kind of know it's part of the job to an extent, and you play ball when necessary, but you don't like it. I don't like it. I mean, you'd be amazed at how often you can just actively not be seen, especially as a... painter i mean i i don't i don't know what you look like yeah i looked on your instagram i have no idea what you look like it's a it's almost a kind of vanity in a way like of not wanting to be seen to that extent but um but i i knew like for the new york times piece like they said we're not we're actually not going to do the piece if you're not photographed so yeah i was like bitch you gotta put your body just more fear aside for for an afternoon suck it up Why dysmorphia? Go sit down over there. Mommy has to get her picture taken. Yeah, and then it came right back. It was just doing push-ups, as they say in AA or NA. But, yeah, so I try and avoid it at all costs, and I am mystified by especially fellow female visual artists who will get photographed at any opportunity because I'm like, you don't need to do that, but also go off. Yeah, I mean. It's fine. You never need to do it, but somehow the world tells us that it helps. Yeah, maybe they like it, and maybe it does help on some level. Maybe I'm naive about it, but it would not help me within, so I personally don't do it. I mean, I'll paint pictures of myself sometimes, but that's like a... How do you feel about the sound of your own voice? I forget how deep it is sometimes. I'm like, bullshit. But then I remember I was mistaken for my dad a lot as a child on the phone. I find it quite relaxing, actually. I love cigarettes. I love cigarettes. Yeah, but I mean, I smoke all the time. My voice sounds fucking stupid. Oh, yeah. No, no. My voice was like this. It's always been like this. And I come from a family of very deep-voiced women. So it's clearly built in. It's a blessing. What's your brand of cigarettes?

When I'm in the US, I'll smoke those really thin menthol things, Capris or Virginia Slims, and I don't know why. But here I roll tobacco, and it's a brand called Amberleaf. And it's fantastic. You a morning or an evening smoker? A little bit of both. I'm all day. All day. It's my favorite. It's all I've got left. That's what I say about the treadmill. I get it. Maybe dessert. Sober people are keeping the cigarette industry alive. I mean, yeah, I'm trying. Single-handedly. I'm trying. I've never bothered with the vape stuff. I just can't. But I also exercise enough and it's just about break even. I'm sure at some point my body will be like, you have to choose, but not right now. What kind of exercise are we doing over there? Because that's not part of the culture really. We are biking everywhere. It's giving biking. It's giving cyclists. It's giving two wheels. We're giving a saddle and we're giving commuting. London's a little bit of a scary place to ride a bicycle around, isn't it? Oh, it's terrifying. You have to have a death wish. It's key. Luckily you do. Luckily I do. And not only do I have a death wish, but I also enjoy there are some very serious cyclist men who are always clad in lycra and they have all of the... um accoutrements and the weird clip-in shoes chris what's the word for word for those types of people no you mean cyclist jason do i have a detrimental term do i yeah no there's like a there's a derogatory term for those types of cycling guys who have bikes that cost 10 000 pounds oh well usually i call them fake exercises because they're usually 50 pounds overweight and they just they still they bike 100 miles to eat a donut And it just doesn't make sense to me. I mean, we would say all the gear and no idea. That's what it seems to be. All the gear and no idea. Yeah. And I like to race them. There's a really steep hill coming up to my apartment when I get back from the studio. And I love to race them. Oh, sorry. I found it. It's called a mammal. It's called a mammal.

Which is an acronym for middle-aged man in Lycra. Mammal, yeah. That's good. So you're biking a lot as a mode of transportation, but also exercise. Sometimes I'll do the treadmill if I'm feeling a little bit gross. And my studio gets extremely cold in the winter, so I'll just do a quick three minutes just to warm up. Hold on, hold on. Are you saying that you have a treadmill in your studio? Yes. Oh, wow. This is very cool. It's a Peloton tread. Okay. It's disgusting. No, they're very nice. I like the dial system. It did kill a child and they had to discontinue it, but you're still with us. What? Yeah, you didn't know that? No. Yeah, it killed a child. Or I did read that and I repressed it. Don't play stupid with us, Izzy. You know exactly what you did to that kid. It wasn't a huge story maybe over there, but yeah, a kid died. They had to like... They kind of stopped making them for a little while. It's fine now. Holy shit. Let's blame the child here. It's not Peloton's fault. One of his little Tom Brown shoelaces probably got caught in the motor. Who knows? We don't hold children accountable enough. We're putting our foot down today. We're putting our foot down. It's time. I mean, thank God I'm not having kids so I can keep the treadmill. Yeah, yeah, you're good. Yeah, you're good. If you prioritize exercise over everything else, then the treadmill stays, kids never making an entrance. Yeah, yeah. No, I bought the treadmill panicked when I quit smoking. I lasted nine weeks, and I was not myself for a single day of those nine weeks. But I did get a lot of use out of that treadmill. Now it kind of sits there just for. special occasions if i walked into a studio where painting was taking place and i also saw a treadmill i would be very excited honey i'm home that's exciting yeah that's a very nice juxtaposition of the artist and the athlete you know i mean i keep the treadmill in this little sort of it's like a little alcove um that is slightly hidden it's not like right in the middle like i don't just treadmill and then look at all my paintings at the same time but um it's in it's in the gym you can just say that it's in the gym yeah and i'm it's it's in it's actually in a gym area so um near the kettlebells in my in my studio no no i'm like i'm a bit ashamed of it because it's like eating disorderly and it um it reminds me of how not far i've come in some ways um that i still insist on it's punishy yeah it's weird and it's like me trying to

make up for smoking so many cigarettes which itself is punishy and it just i don't know it all compounds i i see it differently but i understand where you're coming from well it sounds like you're in the the pink cloud of exercise where it's really serving you or he just likes to be punished or you like to be punished the pink cloud has lasted a long time so i don't know how pink it is still um but yeah i mean it's just it's i just think that investing in quality gear is important and that's what you've done and that's what i want to not music equipment yeah no that's that's dork yeah and if you want i can show you a couple brochures on a nice new digital audio interface well i was i was brutally love-bombed by a musician um earlier in the year and somehow as part of the whole thing he convinced me to buy a bunch of like like an old like German microphone and, like, a really fancy interface and a preamp, which I'd never heard of. Oh, you don't need a fucking preamp. This guy bamboozled you. I know what an amp is, but I don't know what a preamp is. Is it, like, pre-com? In so many ways, yeah, it is, I guess. It's fine, but it's equally potent. Is this someone we know? Ooh, yeah. Did Skrillex talk you into the Neumann mic? Yeah, yeah. It was Skrillex. It was Ed Sheeran. No. Ed is very persuasive. He talked me right into that $11,000 German microphone. He's persuasive, but he's toxic. He will love bomb you and then abandon you in Los Angeles. No, maybe – yeah, I don't want to. No, but I'm saying was it somebody that you would believe because of their accomplishments as an artist? Oh, yeah. Okay, that's what I'm trying to understand. No, no, no. It was a very legit. Were you able to trade some of your artwork with Fortet to get this gear, or how did it work? That laugh means we're getting closer. That's so funny. Fortet. Oh, shit. Yeah.

Okay, all right. Look, thank you. That's amazing. Thank you for joining us today, Izzy. We had a blast talking to you. It was our pleasure, and music is where people find music, I imagine. Yeah, go watch that video on YouTube. Listen to it on Spotify and Apple Music. The song is called Debt, as in the national debt. And you also have a video for another song directed by Lena Dunham starring Hari Neff. True. True. Both of those people have been on the show as well, so it's all in the family. Friend of the show. Guilty. So you can watch that one second. Yeah, that's always going to be there. That's available. But the debt is like, I don't know, as something that I fucking paid for myself. Just watch that. For the simple fact that it came out of your own pocket, let's watch that first. Yeah, and I would love to know if people think I would have been sued. Okay. by hasbro as someone who was on sony and making absolutely no waves at all in that in the music world with that label and i'd love i'd love you know some if there are some fine legal minds we'll post a video and i'll do a instagram poll on my stories for and i'll say only lawyers respond to this and then we'll get a pretty good answer been a real pleasure izzy thank you for taking the time of course have a good rest of your day thank you